Ready, FIRE!, aim...

See, I have this glass box...

I'll get to the point presently but first I want to apologize up front for whatever mistakes I’m making with this post. I’ve never participated much in forums and I’m not entirely sure I’m posting in the right area in the first place. I’m not sure if this would be better placed in the Newt and Salamander Help area rather than here in the construction discussion. When I first joined Caudata.org I got a very nice pm from another member and I think that instead of sending a courteous reply I just sent him back his message. Duh
I have this glass box, a terrarium about 17”x17”x17” with the doors arranged so that there can be about 5” of water inside. Originally it was used to house Cuban anoles, but having had long experience with aquaria, I wanted water to figure prominently in this project. Googling for ideas brought me the term ‘paludarium’. Brilliant. I wanted me a swamp in a box. The problem right away became the small size of the box. Even full up to the doors, the maximum water volume inside is about five gallons, which will be hard enough to keep stable without losing half my precious cubic to substrate! So after lots of head scratching and failed attempts, my solution is pictured. I made this gizmo that I don’t have a name for and have never seen online. It’s a Styrofoam plant stand-water feature-bio filter. I know the pictures aren’t great. It’s about 15” wide x 7” x 5” high. Water from a 250 gph pmp enters at the bottom right, goes through a series of baffled chambers filled with filter medium, and out the top on the left. This provides an enormous surface area for bio filtration inside the gizmo, along with the surface area on the two streams. It sits on glass candelabra ( yay, Dollar Store) so as not to detract from the water volume more than necessary. So I wind up with a five gal volume of very highly filtered and oxygenated water with a lot of movement and no dead spots. The temperature will remain stable at 72 deg f, or I can add a heater. Cooling is not a practical possibility for me. Not pictured is a ramp I made which goes on the right side for any occupants that may need to climb out to land sometime. I know the geode is possibly toxic, but it’s sealed inside aquarium-grade silicone. It’s lit, adequately imho, by three compact fluorescent bulbs. I plan on adding more plants than the two ‘lucky bamboo’ dracaena in there now. Credit for anything I got right goes to Caudata.org members, especially Lugubris and BabySinclair ( EnviroTec Lite solved my biggest problem).
So now I get to the point and the title of my post. Ready, aim fire ain’t how it’s supposed to go. Most people pick an animal to take care of then configure a space to the critter’s needs. Well I have a space in need of a salamander or newt.
I have some opinions of my own mainly based on what I've read here but I’m very interested in the advice, criticism and comments of experienced Caudata.org members. What newt or salamander, if any would thrive in my version of a paludarium? After months of failed attempts I’m sure there are mistakes I haven’t found yet so well-considered critical comments would be very helpful and are absolutely welcome.
Excelsior!

I personally would advice against it, most newts and salamanders are either fully aquatic and won't or rarely leave the water or are fully terrestrial and only require a small bowl of water, and most animals that can possibly go in and out of the water can get fairly large. In addition to that seeing as I believe you're leaving towards aquatic, most of them rely on live plants that should fill the water column. Newts like cooler water, so a temperature preferably below 73F at all times, with some cooling in the winter, and if that filter produces any flow, most will dislike that as well. Most people just use sponge filters with an abundance of plants with regular water changes and daily spot cleaning. Its an interesting concept, but I think you would be better off going for a regular tank, generally the minimum water volume is considered to be 10 gallons to keep all the water parameters stable and everything.
Maybe look into some frogs, they like it a little warmer and can use both the land area and water area, but I am not very knowledgable with frogs and can't really give advice on the topic.

I agree with Aaron, plaudariums can look stunning, but unless they're very large they aren't really suitable for most newts. If their basic needs are met, most newts do very well in captivity and make fascinating pets, but they soon become miserable and sick if things aren't quite right.
It is easy and quite inexpensive to provide a perfect environment for most aquatic newts by setting up a conventional ten gallon aquarium. No heaters or filters are needed with most species just lots of live plants and a tight fitting lid.
Maybe you could sell the vivarium and pick up a second hand tank instead?

I have a ten gallon I'm setting up for Bombina orientalis that I could switch with the newt, but I still have questions. The water isn't just there to be pretty, it's a heat sink. Also, with the evaporative cooling I have going, the water stays at a stable 60 deg f. and it evaporates relatively quickly. I don't think it'll work as well in a ten gallon long tank, so what's more important, having your suggested setup at room temperature or what I have now? Yes I can have a fan blowing in the ten gallon but I don't believe it'll stay as stable or as good quality as I have with this outfit.

I should add that the newt does now have water plants it's hiding in and a large flat area with a hiding place, but has shown no inclination at all to leave the water. It doesn't just sit all day and night in the weeds either. It occasionally patrols the tank, stomping around like Godzilla.

Guide me, Sensei

I would put California newts ,rough skinned newts or eastern newts in a set up like that.I like paludariums used for Newts and yours looks pretty good but add some live plants,hiding spots in the water area.

Ohio Papa said:

so what's more important, having your suggested setup at room temperature or what I have now?

Click to expand...

The suggested setup (10 gallons of water, cool water), would definitely be more important than >5 gallons of water with a wasted land area, a larger water volume would stay cooler easier too.
Im not going to go on a long rant about buying that newt but its ant the smartest idea since its wild caught and stressed and the proper housing isn't being given. Is it eating? And if so whats it feeding on for a staple right now, gaining weight should be a top priority so I would feed earthworm, chopped needed be, or waxworm if you can get ahold of any.
Whats the water temperature of the 10 gallon before adding fans, and without lighting and everything? if its like upper 60's or very low 70's I would pick that but you would still have to cycle the tank and everything.

Honestly, I would suggest returning the newt to the pet shop. But if you won't do that I agree with Aaron, the 10 gallon is better and will be easier to keep good water quality, steady temperature etc.

It was labeled 'Rough Back Newt' and kept in a plain Tupperware tub. I'm not taking it back there.

And no disrespect but I've never seen a ten gallon tank, even set up as an aquarium, that had ten gallons of water in it. If I made it fully aquatic with just a piece of floating cork or something for the newt to crawl out on, there would be no room for emergent plants or anything else. And poor evaporative cooling without a wet surface to fan. I'm here to learn, so if there's an example you can refer to of a ten gallon setup with even eight gallons of water in it I'd be eager to see how good it looks. Otherwise, why quibble over two or three gallons difference when the present setup appears to be working just swell?

The pictures I posted were from the critter's first day in the box, before I got all the plants. Since then it's eaten three fat nightcrawlers and a few nuggets of commercial newt food. It stomps around through the weeds like a landlord and its body has gone from concave to convex. It refuses to come out in the open when I have my phone handy and pose, but I'll catch it out sometime and post a good picture.

Gentlemen, I asked for this and I sincerely thank you for your true opinions. :happy:
Don't stop now!

The 10 gallons is recommended not because of silly reasons, its to keep the water chemistry in stable levels that won't stress out the newt, and from what I take it, the tank you're currently offering has only 5 gallons of water and is uncycled. I admit, my 10 gallon tanks aren't truely filled with 10 gallons of water, but I do fill it so that its only around an inch from the top, no plants have to emerge to the surface, but I do have around 9 gallons, plenty of plants, with regular water changes, if you would like to see pictures, there should be some in my Triturus marmoratus album in my profile (though the plants have grown out quite a bit), or I could post a picture of a 20 gallon thats most of the way full. Paramesotriton get fairly large, 5 gallons of water isn't going to cut it, especially if you're feeding a lot to fatten it up, in 5 gallons of water, it will foul very quickly. I don't think you can tell if something is working after a couple of days, Ive kept newts in 2.5 gallon tanks, but only for quarantine or if ones sick, and if they're in these tanks, 100% water changes should be done daily, you won't get a good cycle that keeps good chemistry with that little water.
As for cooling, I find that having a travel fan pointed at the water will cool it a few degrees, so what if the water evaporates a decent amount, adding more takes little effort, I only do this when the water reaches the low 70's and it usually gets it down to around 68F.
As for returning the newt, it was brought up because they're wild caught and often are very stressed out and easily die to disease, stress, etc. "Rescuing" these newts form the petstore isn't a very good idea because its just telling the store that they're selling and to get more imported which makes the whole thing kind of redundant.
If you really want to learn more and be successful with them you're going to need to provide the proper housing and care.