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ammonia, nitrates and pH, oh my!

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I’m having a terrible time with my axolotl tank. I cycled the tank last summer with Professor in it because I bought her without much advance planning since there were only a few axies available at my LFS. She is an adult now and overall doing well, gills are fluffy, she’s nice and chonk, silly and overall pretty much perfect. But I can’t get a handle on the ammonia and nitrates in the tank. Here are the facts:

20-gal tank w/sponge filter, cycling since last July

One adult axolotl, two babies in breeder boxes. (problem existed before the babies but I didn’t realize the extent of it until they came, long story)

Consistent ammonia 0.5-1.0 (neutralizing w/prime and adding Seachem Seed, free ammonia reader always negative)

0 nitrites, always

Nitrates 40-80 without variation, even after 50% water change. I know this sounds mathematically impossible, welcome to my house of wonders

pH never above 6.6 (inexplicably dropped lower yesterday, 6.0-6.4), tap water 7.6. How water with a pH of 7.6 enters this tank and immediately drops to 6.6 is beyond me. I’m starting to think the tank is haunted.

GH 3 (53), same as tap water, ideally should be 7-14

Ammonia/nitrite/nitrate values have been double checked at LFS with their nifty little machine

Temp always 59-64F

Barebottom tank (no substrate)

Doing 40-50% water change every other day, just chasing my tail


My dilemma:

In the absence of any other explanation, all I can figure is that the presence of ammonia is likely driving down the pH.

I need to raise the pH or I will never grow enough Nitrosomonas to tackle this ammonia. It’s hard enough at current temps, but at this pH it’s pretty much hopeless.

If I increase the hardness, I believe that will raise the pH. However, if I raise the pH, the ammonia will become more toxic. If I don't raise the pH, I'll never get rid of the ammonia.


So I am in a total catch-22 situation with this tank. My only saving grace is that I’m currently cycling a 40 gallon that I hope to move everyone into while I figure out how to save the smaller tank. I’ve been to my LFS many times with questions, they are generally very knowledgeable but I’m finding their expertise is mainly about tropical FW and marine tanks, not cold water tanks, so they are only helpful to a point.

Can anyone address the reason why I can’t get the ammonia under control? Did the low temps prevent the bacteria from growing? Or is it a matter of not having enough surface matter for the bacteria to grow on given the fact that I don’t have any substrate? If so, how do I fix that?

Also, why, oh why, can I not get the nitrates under control. They never change. Ever. There is nary a speck of waste or uneaten food in this tank because I am obsessively sucking it out with the turkey baster thing. It is pristine. You could eat off the floor in there. And yet, nitrates. For days. I can hear them laughing at me. Even the stubborn ammonia will decrease appropriately after a water change. Not these guys, oh, no.

And the pH problem. Do I raise it and risk toxifying the ammonia even further, or do I leave it as it is and never grow the bacteria I need to take care of the ammonia? How would I even raise it, or maintain it at that level if I did?

I know this is a very long post and thank you if you’ve made it this far. If anyone more knowledgeable than me can provide any advice or insight, it would be so appreciated. If there are any flaws in my logic or knowledge, I’m happy to learn – I’ve learned a lot over the past year but I’m far from an expert. I love my axolotls dearly and I want to provide the best for them. I’m just losing my mind and don’t know anyone else I can ask.

TIA, very much!

(attaching pics of Professor "Fessie," just for fun.)
 

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Autistic Catholic

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Take a deep breath.

Tub the axolotls in dechlorinated water immediately. Separate tubs since you have two babies. When the tanks finish cycling, then you can put the animals in.

Ammonia levels are going to hurt the residents if they stay in there.

Also, minimum water volume for 1 axolotl is 10g. So if you have 3 axolotls in a 20g tank, your bioload is going to create problems for the tank.
 

wolfen

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when you measure the ammonia you are measuring total ammonia nitrogen (TAN) this is made up from free ammonia which is toxic but is also what the bacteria eat and ammonium which is non toxic but the bacteria have difficulty eating, in a normal cycle with good ph the bacteria consume/convert the free ammonia causing more free ammonia to break from the ammonium and get consumed/converted until there is no TAN left and the readings are zero.
how much free ammonia is broken away from the ammonium depends on a few things, 1. ph, the more acidic the water the less free ammonia, 2 temperature, the colder it is the less free ammonia, 3 salinity, the higher the salinity the lower the free ammonia. 4 chemical interference, conditioners etc that lock/detox the free ammonia into ammonium.
ammonia is alkali so will raise ph not lower it.
good kh (carbonate hardness) and good gh (general hardness) will prevent ph drops and fluctuations.
ph (potential of hydrogen) will drop as nitrates are produced,
a few things you can do to prevent ph drop and therefore remove ammonia in a axolotl tank are, 1 add a ph buffer, this is normally something that raises the kh gh ie.. calcium (limestone, crushed coral), bicarbonate of soda, alternately read up on using either holtfreters solution or modified solution. 2 use dechlorinators that dechlorinate only ie.. contain sodium thiosulfate.
raising the temperature isn't feasible in a axolotl tank.
at 1ppm TAN, 6.6 ph, 64°f, your free ammonia is very safe at 0.0013ppm the fact that the water is so soft is more harmful.
if the ph is increased to 7.6 the free ammonia is still safe at 0.0129ppm
the safe limit for free ammonia is 0.025.
be aware that when declorinators dechlorinate water they remove chlorine from chloramine leaving ammonia so if the water is tested too soon after a water change it will give readings of ammonia.
for holtfreter/modified go to Axolotls - Requirements & Water Conditions in Captivity
 
Joined
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Location
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Take a deep breath.

Tub the axolotls in dechlorinated water immediately. Separate tubs since you have two babies. When the tanks finish cycling, then you can put the animals in.

Ammonia levels are going to hurt the residents if they stay in there.

Also, minimum water volume for 1 axolotl is 10g. So if you have 3 axolotls in a 20g tank, your bioload is going to create problems for the tank.
Thanks for your reply. The adult and two babies in the 20 gal is a very temporary situation and the babies are tiny, they haven't impacted the bioload much because nothing has really changed since I got them.
I will for sure tub everyone if I see any signs of stress. Right now the ammonia is not in a toxic form and the 40 gal is almost finished.
I appreciate your response!
 

Autistic Catholic

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Thanks for your reply. The adult and two babies in the 20 gal is a very temporary situation and the babies are tiny, they haven't impacted the bioload much because nothing has really changed since I got them.
I will for sure tub everyone if I see any signs of stress. Right now the ammonia is not in a toxic form and the 40 gal is almost finished.
I appreciate your response!
After reading wolfen's comment, I believe that is so too.
 
Joined
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Messages
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Location
Oregon
when you measure the ammonia you are measuring total ammonia nitrogen (TAN) this is made up from free ammonia which is toxic but is also what the bacteria eat and ammonium which is non toxic but the bacteria have difficulty eating, in a normal cycle with good ph the bacteria consume/convert the free ammonia causing more free ammonia to break from the ammonium and get consumed/converted until there is no TAN left and the readings are zero.
how much free ammonia is broken away from the ammonium depends on a few things, 1. ph, the more acidic the water the less free ammonia, 2 temperature, the colder it is the less free ammonia, 3 salinity, the higher the salinity the lower the free ammonia. 4 chemical interference, conditioners etc that lock/detox the free ammonia into ammonium.
ammonia is alkali so will raise ph not lower it.
good kh (carbonate hardness) and good gh (general hardness) will prevent ph drops and fluctuations.
ph (potential of hydrogen) will drop as nitrates are produced,
a few things you can do to prevent ph drop and therefore remove ammonia in a axolotl tank are, 1 add a ph buffer, this is normally something that raises the kh gh ie.. calcium (limestone, crushed coral), bicarbonate of soda, alternately read up on using either holtfreters solution or modified solution. 2 use dechlorinators that dechlorinate only ie.. contain sodium thiosulfate.
raising the temperature isn't feasible in a axolotl tank.
at 1ppm TAN, 6.6 ph, 64°f, your free ammonia is very safe at 0.0013ppm the fact that the water is so soft is more harmful.
if the ph is increased to 7.6 the free ammonia is still safe at 0.0129ppm
the safe limit for free ammonia is 0.025.
be aware that when declorinators dechlorinate water they remove chlorine from chloramine leaving ammonia so if the water is tested too soon after a water change it will give readings of ammonia.
for holtfreter/modified go to Axolotls - Requirements & Water Conditions in Captivity
This is incredibly helpful information, wolfen, thank you so much. You've filled in some gaps in my knowledge that have helped me put the pieces together.
Clearly I need to look at increasing the hardness of the water in my tank. I also read the link you provided for more info. If you have time for a couple clarifying questions this is what I'm wondering:

1. is it safe to adjust the GH in the tank with the axies still in there, or should I wait to deal with this problem until I move them into the other tank?
2. my LFS said they use Seachem Equilibrium to adjust the water hardness for their axies, is this something you know about or would/wouldn't recommend? I've seen conflicting info online.
3. I like the idea of having a "buffer" in the tank to keep the pH more stable so I would like to do this. When would I add something like this? Right away, or after raising the GH using a product? Clearly I need to do more reading about GH and pH and all that but I'm finding it really overwhelming and technical. When I come across chemical formulas my eyes glaze over and my brain explodes.
4. Finally, when I move everyone to my 40gal, are they going to go into shock due to the pH change? The pH in that tank right now is consistent with my tap at 7.6. Maybe I should get some limestone in there to keep it stable?

Thank you again!!
 

wolfen

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1. yes it is safe to increase the kh gh whilst your axolotls are in the tank.
2. seachem equalibrium is designed for plants and has a high amount of potassium and also contains iron which are both chemicals that need to be kept to a minimum with axolotls, looking at the seachem range replenish seems more suited for axolotls.
3. to prevent the ph fluctuation the carbonate hardness (kh, dissolved carbonates) is improved, chemical wise this can be done with bicarbonate of soda or calcium bicarbonate (limestone, limescale etc if unsure drip vinegar on it calcium carbonate fizzes/dissolves), calcium and magnesium is normally used to increase general hardness (gh, dissolved minerals), this is why I recommended holtfreters or modified as the main ingredients are salt (deters fungus and other skin conditions as well as improving general health and well being), bicarbonate of soda (which improves kh and therefore ph), calcium chloride (which improves gh and is also required for general health), magnesium sulphate/epsom salts (which improves gh and is also required for general health), calcium carbonate can be used instead of bicarbonate of soda and calcium chloride but it will cause water cloudiness which depending on filtration can take anything from an hour to a couple of days to clear.
although both holtfreters and modified use potassium this should never be given in doses higher than stated which is 0.05g per litre.
4. if the ph kh gh are all in check there shouldn't be a issue, it will probably be more comfortable for them. putting some limestone will help (as the ph drops it will dissolve a small amount of limestone bringing both the kh and ph back into check and because it is calcium it will improve gh as well)
make sure to wash the limestone thoroughly before hand to prevent cloudiness caused by dust.
 
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