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Another gill fungus/salt bath question

arsn9lea

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My little axie, Rosie, is in a small Rubbermaid tub while her 30 gal. future home cycles and until she is a bit bigger. (She came as a surprise in late November, so we weren't really prepared.)

She has grown from 1.5" to about 3.5" while in the Rubbermaid tub and had been having 80-90% daily water changes. (I wasn't too worried about cycling the tub because it was getting significant daily changes and isn't her permanent home, I hope.)

A few days ago, I noticed what I believe to be fungus on her gills. I didn't see the large cotton-rings I've seen on some pictures, but there was fuzziness to the gills and streamers of fungus floating behind the tips as she swam. She has had three days of twice per day salt baths and we've changed to complete water changes with each salt bath, so twice per day. It seems like there is much less "fuzz" and the gill filaments are clearer and better defined. There is also less streamer material from the tips of the gills, though there is still a little. Also, I see 2 or 3 tiny "balls" of fungus on the backs of her gills.

I think it's improving, but I want to be sure. Should I continue salt baths? Should I taper off to one per day? How long should I keep going?

How do the salt baths work? Do they boost the immune system, kill the fungus directly, or both?

This Rubbermaid tub can breathe, but it doesn't have an air stone or any other oxygen source or basis for moving water. (I assume that each new batch of water contains oxygen, though.) Any thoughts about doing something to improve the situation this way?

Thanks.
 

Calgarycoppers

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First in a tub it should be 100% water changes every day.

Second you are better off to use a salt solution 24/7 that high concentration salt baths.
Dosing is 1 tablespoon of aquarium or pickling salt per 10g of dechlorinated water.

Salt strengthens their slime coat, helps them absorb electrolytes, helps prevent fungus, can treat and prevent nitrate toxicity and can help treat some pathogenic organisms as it can affect their water retention or dehydration which can kill them.
 

arsn9lea

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Thanks for your reply. Are you suggested that I discontinue the salt baths at this point and begin dosing the temporary tub with each daily water change?

I have non-iodized kosher salt. From what I've read, it's acceptable for axolotls. I believe that it's functionally the same as pickling salt, except that it is a bit less concentrated due to larger flake size. The Morton's website says that 1 tbsp plus 1 tsp of kosher salt substitutes for 1 tbsp of pickling salt; I've seen the same expressed as a 1.25:1 conversion, which I think is the same math.

For those of us who are not math or science people, bear with me here. I measured the water-filled portion of the temporary tub as 11.75 x 6 x 2.25 inches, a total of 158.625 cubic inches. Google tells me that this is the equivalent of .687 gallons. If you should add 1 tbsp of salt for each 10 gals of water, that should be the same as adding .0687 tbsp of salt for .687 gallons. .0687 tbs is .206 tsp. of salt for .687 gallons of water. Applying the 1.25 multiplier would suggest adding .258 tsp per .687 gallons, essentially 1/4 tsp.

Do you concur that the kosher salt is acceptable? Does my calculation make sense or seem appropriate?

Any thoughts on the air stone question?

Thanks again for your very prompt reply.
 
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arsn9lea

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Another question: The temporary tub is at room temperature, which is about 68F (20C). I suppose it varies by a degree or two here and there, but that's about where we keep the house. Is this an acceptable temperature for this juvenile? Or should I be adding an ice cube to each water change or something? (I don't think I have another practical way to keep it cooler.)

I had an adult for several years and he seemed to be pretty happy with our house's ambient temperature.
 

Calgarycoppers

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HI

Yes discontinue salt baths and switch to continuous low dose.
for math its approx 1/4 heaping teaspoon per gallon

The range for salt is 1tbsp per 5-10 gallons so using the low end allows for wiggle room.

kosher salt as long as it is pure sodium chloride is fine

For temp you def want to get that down the cold helps them heal and continuous temps at and over 20 degrees increases risk of issues.
Personally a desk fan blowing across the top of the water will cool it quite well.

Airstone is not necessary even in a still tub thats only changed daily. Axolotls have multiple ways to breathe and get O2.
You can but its not necessary.

Thanks for your reply. Are you suggested that I discontinue the salt baths at this point and begin dosing the temporary tub with each daily water change?

I have non-iodized kosher salt. From what I've read, it's acceptable for axolotls. I believe that it's functionally the same as pickling salt, except that it is a bit less concentrated due to larger flake size. The Morton's website says that 1 tbsp plus 1 tsp of kosher salt substitutes for 1 tbsp of pickling salt; I've seen the same expressed as a 1.25:1 conversion, which I think is the same math.

For those of us who are not math or science people, bear with me here. I measured the water-filled portion of the temporary tub as 11.75 x 6 x 2.25 inches, a total of 158.625 cubic inches. Google tells me that this is the equivalent of .687 gallons. If you should add 1 tbsp of salt for each 10 gals of water, that should be the same as adding .0687 tbsp of salt for .687 gallons. .0687 tbs is .206 tsp. of salt for .687 gallons of water. Applying the 1.25 multiplier would suggest adding .258 tsp per .687 gallons, essentially 1/4 tsp.

Do you concur that the kosher salt is acceptable? Does my calculation make sense or seem appropriate?

Any thoughts on the air stone question?

Thanks again for your very prompt reply.
 

arsn9lea

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She has been discontinued from the salt baths and we've switched to the low dose salt water.

I've attached some pictures, though I've found it very difficult to take focused photos so close. The photo with the worms visible is from Sunday (January 3) and the other three are from today (January 6). The fungus isn't very visible in the pictures. I am not sure if it is better or just changed. Instead of the fungus being in the main part of the gills and having some of those tiny balls, the main part of the gills look pretty good but there is much more materials streaming from the tips of the gills. It is somewhat visible in the two closeups. Is this concerning or a normal part of the fungus shedding process?

I do see the forward curls on the two closeups - she doesn't usually look that way and the wider shot (without the worms) was taken at basically the same time, so I wonder if it's just an odd angle, they were flopping around, or she was annoyed at the phone being in her face or something.

On the temperature front, I've been taking readings at the location of the tank. The good news is that the location seems to run a consistent 3-4 degrees (F) cooler there than the household thermostat reading, so it's a pretty consistent 64-65(F)/18(C) there. I can try to bring that down, but it's a bit of a relief that it is a lower temperature than originally thought.

None of it has affected her appetite one bit!

Thanks again for any observations/advice.
 

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Calgarycoppers

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I dont see any obvious fungus - they do get "debris" stuck on and in their gill filaments. Use a turkey baster and fluff the water at the gills and have a good look after.

the constant salt will prevent fungus unless you have a huge spike in test or chemistry
 

arsn9lea

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The stuff I'm talking about is visible in the two close up pictures, but it almost looks like a piece of gill in the pictures. It's a stringy white substance consistent with the fungus that came off during her salt bath period.

The stuff coming off of her gills is definitely connected to or wrapped around the gills, but I'm confident that it is not gill. Fluffing water does not dislodge it. In fact, if you attempt to pull it with a tweezer, the entire gill will move. Obviously, I don't want to do that, as it freaks her out and I don't want to damage her gills.

I'll keep you posted and appreciate your help.

Thanks.
 

arsn9lea

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I saw the last steamer of fungus earlier this week and then it came off into the water. No more visible fungus at this point. She looks healthy and is doing well after about 1.5 weeks of the low dose salt water.

Okay, here's a question: When her 29 gal. tank is cycled and ready, what's the best way to add the salt? Do I have to fully dissolve it in each 5 gal. pail of partial water change water? Can I add the salt directly to the tank and expect it to dissolve and distribute through the ordinary pump/filter process?

Thanks again.
 
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