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Any feeding tips for a juvenile Ambystoma gracile?

Liorah

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Before I start I'll mention that I did already read through the other thread posted on this, but as I only have the one, I believe the root cause of my finicky eater is something different than the one concluded in that past thread :confused:

I've only had my adorable guy for about 3 days now, so I know it's probably early to be freaking out about his eating habits, but it just worries me.

I've found it very hard so far to find any care info. regarding this species in terms of preferred temps. and water temps. etc. His aquarium as of yet isn't as set up as I'd like it, I need to grab some plants for in the water and some branches for him to climb on (right now he only has a dock).

I think his story is that someone caught him in the summer, and then a few months later (Ie. Three days ago...) decided they didn't want him anymore and that they could just let him go in -10 degree C weather in an area with no (at least none that isn't hideously polluted ditch water. Seriously, you should see this thing. There aren't even any bugs that live in it :sick:

From research I've done I've concluded that he's an Ambystoma gracile, and between 1 and 3 years old. He's only about 5 inches long (Has a long way to go before being full-grown!), and he spends about 75% of his time on land, and 25% in the water. Sometimes more or less in / on either depending on the day. And I've been keeping the room he's in at about 10 degrees C, which seems to be what is recomended for other salamanders that are native to this area...

Is it possible that he's just not eating because of stress? Or is it a temperature problem?
I've tried feeding him cut up shrimp, which he didn't seem to acknowledge as food, frozen bloodworms when he's been in his water, which he didn't seem to even acknowledge the existance of, and an earthworm, which is still slithering around with him and which he'll watch and crawl over to whenever it does something particularly interesting, but so far hasn't made any attempts to eat it. Though I'm wondering if that will change once I'm not around anymore... I'm also wondering if maybe he's just young and hasn't really adapted to eating such large foods yet?

Normally I wouldn't keep an animal unless it was actually going to benifit from being in human care, and in this case I feel very stranded because it's much too cold to let him back out to depend on his own devices. My boyfriend thinks that he's not hungry because instinctively, he should be hibernating around this time of year and therefore already stocked up on fat within the last few months? Should I just wait and see how he does in the next couple weeks before I start worrying? Or are there any truly "fool-proof" foods I could get that he's 99% guaranteed to scarf down?

Also, a pretty much unrelated and just general question, how do Ambystoma gracile normally fair in captivity? This one seems to go through periods throughout the day of being active and being thoroughly lathargic, and I'd also like to check that this is normal (though it seems to me as though it would be as they spend much of their time buried normally.)

Also, what is the recomended tank set-up for this species? He seems fairly comfortable the way he is, but I'm still wondering if his habitat could be the problem. They guy at the pet store said a 10 gallon tank would be fine, filled halfway (about 5 or 6 inches) with water. I have a turtle dock he can climb and rest on, and a filter, and will be getting him more and more natural things to climb on and keep himself entertained with. He does spend quite a bit of his time swimming and being immersed in the water. He also will scale the sides of the aquarium the from time to time (Though his toes have never proved to be sticky enough to be any good at climbing :p)

And he's never secreted any kind of poison when I've handled him, if that gives any clue as to his age... :confused:

Thank you all in advance as well for your responses!! I just want to make sure he is as happy and healthy as possible, and don't yet really know what to look for to determine this as he's / she's the first amphibian to ever be in my care! :eek:

Would covering his tank with a blanket or towel to make it darker help?
And I was also wondering if there's any way to tell the gender of A. graciles? I know that with some other species there are differences between males and females.

Thank you!
 

Greatwtehunter

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The lack of appetite due to stress is more than likely your culprit. Try cutting the worms into pieces that are no wider than it's head and put these onto a small lid like from a jar of baby food. Also you could try small crickets that have been gutloaded and dusted with supplements. You may have better luck putting the food in the tank right before you turn the lights out and leave it in there overnight. Salamanders are most active at night and this is when you'll have the most luck at getting him to it.

Oh, and about gender; at it's current size you won't be able to tell.
 

Azhael

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I´d say your set-up is all wrong. This is a terrestrial species, that only visits the water during breeding time. I´m not familiar with the species but as far as i know they are pretty much lke a tiger salamander as far as husbandry and general care goes.
It could drown in such deep water.

Take a look at the Ambystoma tigrinum/mavortium caresheet, and follow the advice, since they have the same scavating behaviour and therefore require the same basic care.

Shrimp is not a suitable food item. Bloodworms should be accepted eventually, although it may take a long time for the poor animal to realize they are food.
Keep trying with earthworms, and perhaps small slugs. Crickets, as Justin says, are a good option too, but beware of leaving crickets in the tank, because they can stress out the salamander or even chew on it.
 

Liorah

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The lack of appetite due to stress is more than likely your culprit. Try cutting the worms into pieces that are no wider than it's head and put these onto a small lid like from a jar of baby food. Also you could try small crickets that have been gutloaded and dusted with supplements. You may have better luck putting the food in the tank right before you turn the lights out and leave it in there overnight. Salamanders are most active at night and this is when you'll have the most luck at getting him to it.

Oh, and about gender; at it's current size you won't be able to tell.

I'm almost 100% sure that he ate the earthworm after I left for the day... There's always a chance that he chased it into the water or something, but I doubt that =/ I'm not allowed to have crickets in the house, lol. But I have put another worm in the tank for him, and my boyfriend mentioned a place he knows of where I can buy them. I'll try cutting them if this worm isn't gone as well when I get back from my uncles on boxing day. Thank you so much for your advice!!




I´d say your set-up is all wrong. This is a terrestrial species, that only visits the water during breeding time. I´m not familiar with the species but as far as i know they are pretty much lke a tiger salamander as far as husbandry and general care goes.
It could drown in such deep water.

Take a look at the Ambystoma tigrinum/mavortium caresheet, and follow the advice, since they have the same scavating behaviour and therefore require the same basic care.

Shrimp is not a suitable food item. Bloodworms should be accepted eventually, although it may take a long time for the poor animal to realize they are food.
Keep trying with earthworms, and perhaps small slugs. Crickets, as Justin says, are a good option too, but beware of leaving crickets in the tank, because they can stress out the salamander or even chew on it.

As I said, the set-up is what the guy at the pet store told me. I did try to tell him that I thought the land to water ratio was off, just from what I'd observed of my salamander, but he insisted that this set-up was good for any salamander. I find it funny actually, that you referenced the tiger salamander, as that's what he suggested mine was when he gave me these instructions. :wacko: And I also read somewhere that shrimp was a favorite food of salamanders. I was pretty much just going off of what I could find on the internet those first couple of days, as I've never had a salamander before.

I do want to add more land for him to be on, as I mentioned. Though he does seem to enjoy swimming... Maybe he doesn't though. Looks can be very deceiving, particularly when you don't know what you're looking for!

I will look up the tiger salamander forum. Thank you!
 

Liorah

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I looked up the tiger salamander care-sheet and re-did did Eve's aquarium before I left for Christmas. It said that if you don't have a borrow-friendly substrate in your aquarium (I have aquarium gravel, and it's too late in the year to buy top soil or anything more suitable around here =/ And it didn't seem as though the pet shop carried anything either, but I am going to look again tomorrow) that you can make faux borrows out of inner tubing and paper towels, and the salamanders will accept them just the same. I didn't have inner tube so I substituted with a toilet paper roll and am happy to say Eve has moved right in!! I brought two home with me from my Christmas excursions to my uncle's as well to give her some more hidey-holes, and also have a cardboard box / platform that is currently holding a picture frame that I believe will make an awesome shelter for her as well. I've kept her turtle dock in there, so that she still has levels to climb, and she has a water dish with wide, high-traction sides, so she can easily get in and out. I'm going to be picking up some new and different, live food for her tomorrow. I'm thinking more earthworms, and I want to add meal worms as well. Any thoughts on this? I will try to get pictures up of her new enclosure so I can get some critique and constructive critism, advice, and suggestions etc. And just general thoughts / opinions. The gravel also has some areas where it's built up more than others, so she can move around depending on whether she wants to be wetter or drier. I'm so glad I found this forum, you guys have helped so much! Thank you!!! :kiss:
 

Greatwtehunter

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When you go to the pet shop ask for some stuff called coco-fiber or a brand name of it would be Bed-A-Beast. It will be in the reptile section. Mealworms are ok but not the best thing. Make sure you crush the head first because when the salamander bites it, the mealworms can and do bite back.:eek:
 

Liorah

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Coco fibre's already on my shopping list ^^

I know meal worms aren't a good main diet, as they're high in fat, but for variety I think they'll be a decent additive. I went today and got some samples of those and wax worms (higher in protein) for her to try. The next time I go back for food I'm going to look for Coco fibre (though I didn't see any, again, this trip... But I was just running in and out pretty much, and was really only there for the food today.).

If I can't get a hold of anything for her to borrow into, will my make-shift tunnels be able to hold her over until Spring do you think? (Ie. Will she be content enough not to die of stress or anything?)
 

Liorah

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She still hasn't eaten anything =/ I'm trying to only disturb her aquarium enough to change her water and food each day, and leave her alone other than that to minimize stress. I tried cutting an earthworm up into smaller pieces, but the problem seems to be more that she doesn't even realize that the food is in there with her. She pretty much chooses a spot each day, and stays there for 24 hours before moving to a different spot for 24 hours, and so on and so forth... So I guess I'm just waiting for her spot to eventually be by the food dish? Or else for her to eventually get hungry enough that her foraging / hunting instincts take over and she discovers it?

I'm buying wax worms tomorrow, because it seems many other people have had much success with them. I'm not saying they're going to be her main diet, I'd just like to get something into her at this point. I tired tong feeding her yesterday, with no success, and have decided to hold off on that, again, to minimize stress.

I'm thinking, for the wax worms, that I'll put two in her food dish, and I'll just let the other one roam unrestrained in front of her... Do they borrow at all? And what are the chances of it climbing up the sides, through the mesh ceiling, and building webs in my room?

I know three is a lot for her for one sitting, but I'm going with the theory that the more activity there is in and around her dish, the more likely she is to notice it. I'll cut back, of course, once I know that she's actually eating. I just don't want the same problem I had with the earthworms at first, where I put them in, and left her alone, and afterward didn't have any way of knowing whether she'd eaten them or not. (She didn't btw, they climbed into the water and buried into the gravel bottom. I saw them crawling against the sides of the tank today in fact!)

She's not underweight as of yet, so I'm not worried about her starving to death immediately, and her activity seems normal regarding what I know of the species.

And suggestions, comments, or opinions regarding my new plan of action?

Also, is it a possibility that because it is winter time here right now, even though I've been keeping the temperature higher than it is outside for her, that she's in a mild 'hibernation' stage still? And therefore isn't wanting to eat as much / as often?

EDIT: Tomorrow when I got to the pet store, if they have Coco fiber I may be picking that up too along with the worms. Would it be better for Eve if I apply it to her habitat right away (I'm planning on simply layering it atop the gravel currently in there, so as to only disturb her and her current living area as much as is absolutely necessary. This will help with drainage and to hold water anyways, so I don't see it as a bad system.) Or, would it be more prudent for me to focus on keeping her current living environment as stable as possible, just the way it is for now?
 

ghostsaw

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when you go to the pet store look for the cocoa fiber bricks...they are small but when you add water to them they expand like crazy.....also you can use organic potting soil that dosen't have fertilizer in it. My tigers eat cut up nightcrawlers and waxworms but I have to feed them with a pair of tongs..for some reason if I just put them in the tank they won't eat them....also pvc pipe makes good burrows as they won't rot and get moldy like cardboard..
 

Liorah

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Thank you all for your helpful replies! Eve's tank has been re-constructed with Coco fibre and she is loving it :D I also found my Swiss Army Knife and accompanying pair of tweezers, and have since tried tong feeding with success!

:kiss::love::angel:
 

zippybomb

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Northwestern Salamanders are not terrestrial, they're semi-aquatic but they do love to dig in wet moss. I'm setting up a cage for one with the land area completely made out of moss. That way if you need to get him out you can just lift up the moss. Good luck digging up two pounds of soil trying to get your salamander!:D
 

Liorah

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Northwestern Salamanders are not terrestrial, they're semi-aquatic but they do love to dig in wet moss. I'm setting up a cage for one with the land area completely made out of moss. That way if you need to get him out you can just lift up the moss. Good luck digging up two pounds of soil trying to get your salamander!:D

My Northwestern Salamander never goes in her water. Literally not ever. And she doesn't bury under the dirt either because she has enough caves etc. in which to nestle under.

I've never read anything about Northwestern Salamanders being semi-aquatic, except during breeding season... :confused:
 

dane_zu

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Northwestern Salamanders are not terrestrial, they're semi-aquatic but they do love to dig in wet moss. I'm setting up a cage for one with the land area completely made out of moss. That way if you need to get him out you can just lift up the moss. Good luck digging up two pounds of soil trying to get your salamander!:D

dosn't sound right to me...."I dont want my salamander to be comfortable because i might have to FIND him"

where does that make sense? salamanders LOVE to hide themselves

the only salamander I really hear of that likes to dig extensively are tigers
 

zippybomb

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If for some reason you need to get him out for an emergency then it would be much easier. you could get him out a lot easier. It's the same as soil except lighter and more water absorbent.
 

stablefly

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Ok, I happen to know a bit about Northwesterns/ brown salamanders since I have kept them in the past for many years and have a friend who wrote some thesis paper on them in university. he is now a fisheries officer. They are great animals and very east to care for. They ARE terrestrial and return to the water to breed in the spring as Azhael has said. They are aggressive feeders and you should have no problem getting them to eat sowbugs, crickets, earthworms, slugs and anything that moves for that matter. I have found these animals under rocks at alpine locations when there is still some snow on the ground so they would be fine if released into an area with some leaf litter and old logs. Neotenous adults seem to be much more common at higher elevations. If you choose to keep it I would set it up as a Tiger salamander would be set up as a good rule. BUT... the bigger issue is that it it ILLEGAL to possess this animal in British Columbia as it falls under protection from the fish and wildlife act. ( this is the reason i don't have any today)
 
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