Axolotl - antibiotic solution

[HitmanSougo13]

I may get flames for posting this but again I just want to share on what I know for helping axolotls.

For illnesses where using a salt bath is not suitable (ie. the axolotl is too small) or if you are not a fan of the indian almond leave solution, then try this antibiotic solution. The an axolotl researcher I gotten to know uses

API E.M. Erythromycin​

on axolotls who are ill. Each package is meant for 40L/10 gallons so I do a 1/4 package with 10L of water or 1/8 package with 5L of water all in a smaller tub. You are suppose to allow the Axie to adjust to the water so the schedule will be like such:

Day 1 - a 1/4 dose of the medicated de-clorinated water + non-medicated de-clorinated water.
Day 2 - 1/2 dose of the medicated de-clorinated water + non-medicated de-clorinated water.
Day 3 - a full dose of medicated de-clorinated water.

If the Axie is not healed up by a week worth of dosage then extend to about another week but do try to go for a week.

 

[ChristianV]

So what exactly is this going to help? Infections?

 

[HitmanSougo13]

It works for infections, fungus and just for odd things where you don't think a salt bath is the solution. E.M. Erythromycin is an antibiotic.

 

[keiko]

Quite honestly no one should use any antibiotics without a doctor's/vet's prescription and instructions. Some antibiotics don't work well on a specific bacteria or you might need to use them for a longer time. Even if there isn't any more symptoms there could still be some of the bacteria left and if you stop the antibiotics only the stronger bacteria survive and evolve to become resistant to the antibiotic.

 

[HitmanSougo13]

If I had a reliable vet in my city, I would take my axies there. Unfortunately the vet decides to take my first sick axie to a back room, warm it up because she thought I was wrong that the axie likes cooler climates and then injected medicine directly up the butt and told me now it's Darwinism at play. My axie didn't survive the night with the rough treatment. Of course I learned much more about how to fix axolotl constipation afterwards.

When it comes to understudied diseases of an understudied pet which really has the capacity out be a long term pet, sometimes it is ultimately the owner who makes the tough calls. Ie. do you fridge (but it stops their metabolism), do you give a salt bath (but it is very harsh), do you force feed (but it sounds cruel), etc. What I will mention is that the researchers at the university do not have the luxury of taking the hundreds to axolotls to vets when any of them are sick, so they just use EM erythromycin.

 

[Lucky10v3]

How long do you leave the axo in the solution?

 

[Otterwoman]

Where can you get this powder?

 

[HitmanSougo13]

You should be able to buy it at any typical pet store say your petland, pet smart etc. Now mind you it won't be as strong as a doctor's prescribed antibiotic but it can deal with issues like fungus of you are trying to prevent your pet from getting an infection because it lost a limb.

You can leave your axolotl in the water until a water change. But typically say you change your sick tub water every day then you would want to start easing your pet into the water with a half dose of the whatever is for the water volume then go the full dose for that water volume for about 7-10 days then a half dose to wean your pet off of the medications. With of course the 100% water change but still adding the medication to the new declorinated water.

Remember one pack is for 40 litres so you have to split that up to the right measurement.

 

[herpvet]

Quite honestly no one should use any antibiotics without a doctor's/vet's prescription and instructions. Some antibiotics don't work well on a specific bacteria or you might need to use them for a longer time. Even if there isn't any more symptoms there could still be some of the bacteria left and if you stop the antibiotics only the stronger bacteria survive and evolve to become resistant to the antibiotic.

And in addition, amongst others:

- you don't know it's a bacterial problem without appropriate diagnostics. If it's not, erythromycin is definitely not appropriate (including for fungus which was mentioned a couple of times - as far as I know it has no action on fungi, and as such is not appropriate for it).

- Antibiotics will affect the microbiome (microbial community) of the host animal. This is increasingly being recognised as being as important as other body organs. It should not be disrupted casually

- We are increasingly recognising the risk and possible, even likely, reality of a post-antibiotic world (google it if you're unaware of this) - it's quite scary....don't use antibiotics unnecessarily

- Erythromycin is very rarely the antibiotic of choice for amphibians, on several grounds (tissue penetration variable but not great, bacteriostatic rather than the preferred bacteriocidal, and spectrum versus common bacteria not terrible, but not great). Like all drugs it has side effects, notably including stomach irritation

- The current standard veterinary (exotic animal/specialised) formularies have no record of tested doses of erythromycin in amphibia, strongly suggesting there is no scientific data on whether this dose is suitable or not. There are drugs for which this, or at least some positive information, is available.

As a guide, any drug should ideally only be used when there is definitely a problem, sensitive to the proposed drug, in a site where the drug is likely to reach effective levels under the proposed treatment regime (and that treatment regime should be achievable), and the benefits of treatment for the individual animal are very likely to greatly outweigh the risks of side effects. Giving any drug should never be "casual".

Obviously this ideal may not be entirely achievable in all cases, but it should be aimed for. Just throwing a drug in the animal's water (especially something like an antibiotic) on the off-chance it might help an undiagnosed condition is not acceptable.

I am aware that there are parts of the world where suitable veterinary care is not available which does create ethical issues which may have no easy answer. There is something of a fine line as to what is acceptable to use in such cases (e.g. tea solution or salt solution versus antibiotic), but the more effective the drug generally the more selective it is, so the more important it is that the condition is diagnosed correctly, or at least that the suspicion index of the condition being susceptible to the drug is high (based on professional or at least experienced opinion that (in the case of antibiotics) there is a bacterial issue, likely to be sensitive to the antibiotic etc).

Especially when, as here, use may affect future efficacy of the drug. To repeat - if you're not aware of it, google "post-antibotic era".

 

[Lucky10v3]

Saved my Pretty (2yr old son named him). Didn't have vet access so tried this in stead of euthanasia. Before and after pics attached. I was told he had bacteria in his blood and that he would die. His arms started falling off as well.I was out of options but he is not red and vieny. It also appears his arms are starting to heal. Thank you.