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Bombina orientalis blue

Joost

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Long time om my wish-list, but I found them and finally got them! Blue and het. blue Bombina orientalis.
 

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mshine1217

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I Googled them since I had not heard of "blue" FBT's. That's an amazing color. Are they mostly just available in your "neck of the world"?
 

jane1187

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They don't look very blue at the moment, will they increase in their blue-ness (is that a word?) as they grow?
 

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AW: Bombina orientalis blue

They will get brighter when they are older. The colour blue is also variable (just like green and brown). It can be from greenish blue to deep blue (although they are very rare). But I'm planning to select offspring on their colour.
 

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froggy

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Re: AW: Bombina orientalis blue

Umm...I may be wrong, but that just looks like a B. orientalis that was not fed any carotenoids... The green colouration is made up from layers of blue pigment, manufactured by the animal, and red carotenoid pigments that are taken from the diet (only manufactured by plants/algae etc)...I had some like that that became 'normally' green once carotenoids were added to the diet. The very blue animals that seem to exist may have a mutation preventing them from uptaking/sequestering caroetnoids, but also may be just fed on a diet completely devoid of carotenoids.

The same is true for a large number of the 'blue' Hyla arborea...

Some carotenoids are actually derived from the mother, who adds them to her eggs, so breeding from low-carotenoid mothers can lead to relatively low carotenoid tadpoles/juveniles, too.

You could find out by giving some of them carotenoid supplements and then others none.

C
 

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AW: Bombina orientalis blue

Of course I'm going to try that, although I can't imagine that blue and red turn up in green.
Green is pigmentation of blue and yellow, and that yellow is missing. I've bred FBT for almost 18 years, and I've never seen that blue colour in my offspring, whatever they have (or haven't). been fed.
 

froggy

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Re: AW: Bombina orientalis blue

The yellow/orange compounds and blue pigments are in different layers and combine to cause the green colour. The yellow/orange pigments are largely based on carotenoids. One recently published paper from my lab shows a comparison between blue and bright green Agalychnis callidryas, an effect caused simply by altering the carotenoid content of their diets.

Of course this could be a mutation blocking uptake/sequestering of carotenoids, as I said above, but all I'm saying is make sure that it's not dietary!

Depending on how old the frogs are, supplementing caroetnoids can have varying effects on changing the colour of frogs...

C
 
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froggy

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Re: AW: Bombina orientalis blue

Great! Sorry to be doubtful, I am just skeptical of any colour 'mutations' that haven't been proven genetic, particularly those that can be replicated nutritionally.

Cheers

C
 
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Niels D

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If it were due to a lack of carotenoids I would think that we would see a lot more of these blue B.orientalis. Most of the amateur breeders don't give their offspring any caretenoids, which results in the yellow bellies. I've seen all varieties (except the blue ones) with a yellow bellie, but I've never seen these blue ones. Just me thinking out loud....
 

froggy

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Re: AW: Bombina orientalis blue

Hehe, yes it could. I think it's safest to suspend judgement until the evidence is in (although most toads will receive some carotenoids via gutloading with vegetables etc, even if not deliberately provided). There's no way to tell untl you try boosting some fo their colours. If it is a mutation, I wonder if the belly could turn red, bu leave the back blue....
 

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AW: Bombina orientalis blue

I will, but I'm still in doubt if I'm going to try it with one of these, or later with their offspring.

Few more pics:
 

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caleb

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Apparently the yellow component of the green areas of B. orientalis is composed of both pterins and carotenoids (but belly colour is 100% carotenoid).

So a mutation that caused loss of pterins should certainly give a bluer colour- but it would still be affected by diet.

The orientalis I have at the moment looked a lot like these photos at about six months old- but they are now both more green and more orange.
 
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