Bought some presents for myself (Salamandra s. Terrestris)

[Stupot1610]

I swear I made this thread earlier but It hasn't appeared and my other posts have (mods, if there is another thread like this made by me just delete it), so I've made it again:

Well, now that my outdoor vivarium is finished I felt I NEEDED some fire salamanders. So I bought myself two sexed pairs, and one female is currently gravid and should drop her larvae soon- looking forward to raising the larvae. They're all roughly fifteen centimetres long and have very nice markings.
This is the gravid female:

And a male:


More photos:









Stuart

 

[sde]

Awesome Stuart!
You picked a very good species for an outdoor vivarium, they are very hardy ( you probably already knew that ). Mine recently were exposed to temperatures of 24 F or lower ( 4.4 C or lower ) and were just cuddled up in a hide that is built into the landscape of my tank. They were completely fine too, they ate soon after.
Are you sure that that female is gravid? She looks like a pretty normal weight to me.

Good luck with them, and keep us posted! -Seth

 

[Stupot1610]

That's exactly why I picked them! If you're keeping something outside in Scotland they have to be hardy. The female is definitely gravid, the keeper I bought them from told this and I would agree with him. You can really notice it if you compare her to the other female that is normal weight. This group of S.s.terrestris drop larvae from October-December and/or February-April so she may hang on until the spring. The other female had already given birth before I bought her.

Stuart

 

[Stupot1610]

Just to show the difference I have taken pictures of both females. The gravid female isn't huge, so will probably only produce 20-30 larvae or the larvae are still developing and she will deposit them in the spring.

Not gravid female:


Gravid female


Comparison:



Stuart

 

[mr cyclone]

Lovely animals there!, I've never kept fire salamanders but I have been giving them some thought lately do you have a picture of your outdoor setup?
Nice to see another local lad keeping newts

 

[Stupot1610]

The inside hasn't been started yet, the salamanders will spend the winter in my garage. The base of the vivarium is a triangle built to fit into a space between my shed and garage, which it has done very well. The base has two sides about 160cm and one 60cm and the hight is roughly 160cm. It is designed so that quite a few species will be able to live in it- I plan to get H.arborea, B.viridis, B.variegata and a couple of Triturus newts. I already have the salamandra and P.lesonae for it. The pool frogs were chosen because they are a relatively small water frog and are very unlikely to try and eat other inhabitants.



Stuart

 

[Azhael]

It is designed so that quite a few species will be able to live in it- I plan to get H.arborea, B.viridis, B.variegata and a couple of Triturus newts. I already have the salamandra and P.lesonae for it. The pool frogs were chosen because they are a relatively small water frog and are very unlikely to try and eat other inhabitants.

Ooh....that's a mistake......

 

[Stupot1610]

Ooh....that's a mistake......

No, I don't think it is actually. I have spent a very long time researching this, which included speaking to many knowledgeable people. Compatibility of the species has been fully thought through, the species being kept in there are not final but I am definitely keeping Salamandra, Hyla Arborea and Pelophylax lessonae. I'm still undecided on B.viridis and B.variegata, and the Triturus newts are going to be kept in other enclosures. However, you are entitled to your views.

Stuart

 

[Azhael]

That i am, yes. Pelophylax will predate on Hyla if they are small enough, and will definitely predate on juvenile Hyla and possibly Salamandra, even the larvae if they get the chance. So if you intend to breed inside the enclosure, that's a definite problem.
Just because some of these species coexist in the wild it doesn't mean that there are no problematic interactions between them or that forcing them into a limited space works for them the same way that being in the wild does.

 

[Stupot1610]

In the spring they will be moved to species only breeding tanks and juveniles will only be put into the vivarium once they are nearly adult size, and even then they are unlikely to go into the vivarium. I will only be keeping a small number of adults of each species in this anyway.

Stuart

 

[Chinadog]

I'd have to agree with Azhael I'm afraid. When it comes to mixing species in the same enclosure there are no benefits for the animals involved, only risks. What's the point of running these risks when you don't have to just to see them together in the same terrarium?
I know they occur together in the wild, but then so do lions and zebras.
I would urge you to have a rethink and decide which animals you most want to keep. That way you can create the perfect environment for them, rather than a compromise to try and cater for multiple species.

 

[Azhael]

I know it's a slightly larger species (although not that much), but P.perezi has been documented attempting to predate on fully adult Hyla meridionalis. Just so you know...

 

[Stupot1610]

Whatever go into the vivarium will not be harmed, I haven't definitely decided on what i want to put in anyway. They will be species that can live together in this size of vivarium. You can all say what you want about it, but it's up to me at the end of the day and I can assure you none of the amphibians being kept in the vivarium will come to any harm. I will seriously consider the species involved before adding any to the vivarium, if the Pelophylax lessonae grow too large they can be kept separately, but they were bought from a group where the males are 4cm and the females are 6cm, so they are not very big. Please don't think that I haven't properly thought about this.

Stuart

 

[Stupot1610]

While we're on the topic, what species would you reccomend for the vivarium? I can't see there being any problems if I keep S.s.terrestris and H.arborea and possibly B.viridis.

Stuart

 

[JM29]

Ok, let's calculate :
Basis : 1,60 m x 0,60 m = 0,96 square meter.
Let's sy 1 square meter.

It's a great surface for a terrarium but how many species can actually coexist on such a small area? I'm afraid the answer is only 1.

 

[JM29]

Sorry, I didn't catch the real shape was a triangle, so the real area of the base is only 0,5 square meter. It's worse than what I thought.

 

[Stupot1610]

I underestimated the size, it's actually quite a bit larger. Anyway, I probably came over a bit hostile earlier, so sorry for that. I have everything sorted now, I'm planning to only keep one or two species in the vivarium now, as I am planning something else for other species (individual enclosures per species). That you for helping, everyone.

Stuart

 

[manderkeeper]

Fire salamanders are awesome, afraid I must agree with everyone else that there is little reason to add anything else. You've got some great salamanders, enjoy them and build a second enclosure if something else comes up that you cannot live without.

 

[sde]

You can all say what you want about it, but it's up to me at the end of the day and I can assure you none of the amphibians being kept in the vivarium will come to any harm.

I don't think you can really assure us unless you successfully keep them together for long periods. You have done research, and your findings have led you to believe that you can keep them together, I will trust you on that, but there are still no guarantees that they won't harm each other.
I would be interested of the results if you do choose to put more than one species in the vivarium.

Just out of curiosity, how is the vivarium going to sit? Is it going to be buried or sit on the ground? Looks like good solid construction, well done. -Seth

 

[Stupot1610]

Like I said, I was reluctant to accept that my research wasn't as solid as I would have liked to think. Sorry for coming across so hostile, but I think we have come to the conclusion that I can't keep more than a couple of species in it so you don't have to keep telling me. Despite what you might like to think, I am not stupid, nor do I wish to harm the animals in any way at all. I am going to keep my S.s.terrestris and some Hyla Aroborea in the vivarium.

Stuart