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Caecilians + Pipa carvalhoi = ???

Eugenia

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Hi!
I am a keeper of Pipid frogs in Moscow, Russia.
A year ago few fully aquatic caecilians (Typhlonectes sp.) were brought to Moscow from Germany and a month ago one of them gave birth to two youngsters.
Four animals have been kept successfully in big fully planted paludarium with two Surinam frogs for about 10 monts. Closer to the birth pipas were removed.
In nature these animals live rather close to each other.
I wonder could it be possible to keep together caecilians with Pipa carvalhoi?


http://www.tropica.ru/forum/index.php?showtopic=11242&st=220
 

nate

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At the zoo I work at, we keep Pipa parva with Typhlonectes natans in the same exhibit. These two animals are sympatric in their habitat. The mix works just fine, and the frogs breed readily and the caecilians have given birth to babies with no problems.
 

Coastal Groovin

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Wouldn't the adult pipa be able to eat the baby Caecilians. I'm sure adults would be fine.
 

nate

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Pipa pipa would definitely be big enough to eat newborn natans...

But Pipa parva are not, and carvalhoi is only slightly larger, so I would have to guess they would not be able to eat newborn natans. Again, this is based on recently having natans born on exhibit with parva.

And don't forget, natans have some pretty nasty skin toxins when distressed. I wouldn't be shocked if adult P. pipa spit them out anyway.
 

Eugenia

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Dear colleagues,
thanks for your opinions!
At the moment we are thinking to combine the caecilian family with P.pipa again.
So couple of young frogs of small size (about 6 cm) will be placed to the paludarium, where 4 adult and 3 (!!!:happy:) newborn babies live at the moment.
As far as pipa frogs never paid any attention to eels (only to their FOOD:D) no harm will be done.
And later in January I will start arranging my own paludarium where I suppose to keep caecilians and (If I am lucky enough to get the frogs) P.corvalhoi.
 

Coastal Groovin

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After watching that video I'm going to consider my worries confirmed!!! The Pipa frog did get the entire baby in its mouth!!!. Although it did not get to swallow it there is no telling if the next time it might meet with success. Not to mention the fact the Caecilian could be hurt while being grabbed . Not something I would want to risk!!
 

Eugenia

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Re: funny you should mention that nate...check out this video of a new born T. natans and Pipa pipa!

paris,
what a fantastic video you posted... Many thanks for letting us enjoy the whole thing.
I must say that a baby caecilian should taste REALLY DISGUSTING if the Surinam frog (!) was able to get rid of it.
At the moment my friend still have twi Surinam frogs and a Caecilian family with 3 babies being kept together in the same tank (spacy paludarium) and all are fine. Once he saw how a baby caecilian bited the frog near by the food. So they are able to survive with pipas.

And - again thanks for the video. I can have quite a lot of information how the tank is being arranged for both species.

P.S. Pipa carvalhoi were delivered to Moscow successfully about a month and a half ago. :))))))))))
I placed them in ceparate tank as they are very small in size (although they are about a year old).
During these weeks they laid eggs twice but the female was not really ready to keep the eggs. I mean, her skin was not ready for placing the eggs inside.
I hope for the best.
 
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