Central Missouri caudate herping ???'s...

[Joe Blecha]

Hello everyone!

I am new to the forum. I field herp on a VERY regular basis but seem to get skunked on pretty much any and all caudates, mainly because I target snakes more often and salamanders are a side bonus if I happen to flip one. I'm guessing I'm a little late (or really early depending on how you look at it) in the year to be finding much more at least in decent numbers. I was really hoping to find some breeding Ambystoma this year but didn't have any luck even when specifically targeting them.

I'm wondering if I still have hope of finding at least some larva or new metamorphs in the vernal pools? I did manage to find ONE central newt and a couple slimy salamanders last year while flipping for snakes and found Tiger Salamanders in Nebraska as a kid. This year I made a trip to Southern Illinois and checked Cave Salamanders, Long-tailed Salamanders, and Southern Red-backed Salamanders off of my lifer list.

Do I still have a chance at finding any this year? Should I be dip netting the pools? I flip basically EVERYTHING I see when I go herping (VERY careful to put things back as they were)... I keep thinking I may find a stragler eventually but some other local herpers say there's only Small-mouthed Salamanders here (which a friend found near her house but I haven't found one MYSELF to check off my list)...

 

[thinkinfeller]

I'm still flipping Ambystomids in Southern Ontario, but it has been unseasonably cool here for the last 4 weeks. The Spring march to the vernal breeding pools started late this year also....

I've been turning up alot of A. laterale, but I know of others who are still finding A. maculatum and A. jeffersonianum also.

Dan

 

[Joe Blecha]

Dan,

That's good to hear. We've had cool temps and a TON of rain the last few days. I'm heading out in my poncho and mud shoes after work today (7am) to see if I have any luck. I'm quite a bit south of you so I may still be too late. I think they're supposed to be fall breeders here although I know I hear they turn up more often in the early spring... I'd be happy to flip just ONE of any Ambystoma still this year...

Cheers,
-Joe-

 

[Greatwtehunter]

I flip salamanders year round, granted I do have more of a diversity here. Either way the key for terrestrial salamanders is to be in the area they want to be in. During the heat of late spring early summer look for objects to flip in the coolest, darkest, most moist area of the woods. Going out on cool rainy nights along a stretch of road through areas you know contain salamanders can be very productive. Also, walking through the woods with just a flashlight at this same time will also turn up a few salamanders roaming about as well. You should be able to dip net some larvae for about another month or so. Once they start morphing you can look under objects in the woods surrounding the ponds to find the fresh morphs (This period is brief but can turn up lots of morphs).

 

[thinkinfeller]

Dan,

That's good to hear. We've had cool temps and a TON of rain the last few days. I'm heading out in my poncho and mud shoes after work today (7am) to see if I have any luck. I'm quite a bit south of you so I may still be too late. I think they're supposed to be fall breeders here although I know I hear they turn up more often in the early spring... I'd be happy to flip just ONE of any Ambystoma still this year...

Cheers,
-Joe-

As far as I know, A. opacum are the only Ambystomids known to breed in the Fall.... if I'm wrong please correct me. I spent an hour or so in a wooded area last night looking for maculatum in the rain, no luck.

Dan

 

[Slimy2]

Hi, I live in Harrison, Arkansas near the Missouri border and I can still find Ambystoma maculatum and Ambystoma annulatum larvae in vernal pools and cow ponds right now. I have recently found N.v.l. (central newts) around here too. On occasion I have found a spotted or ringed salamander under a rock or log at my house during the summer months. If you want to find any Plethodon, Eurycea or Desmognathus, you will have to look in and around springs and streams deep in the woods or on hillsides. Otherwise all I find is snakes here too. Good luck herping.

-Cameron

 

[Jan]

As far as I know, A. opacum are the only Ambystomids known to breed in the Fall.... if I'm wrong please correct me. I spent an hour or so in a wooded area last night looking for maculatum in the rain, no luck.

Dan

Ambystoma annulatum also breed in the Fall.

 

[Joe Blecha]

Awesome! Thanks for the input, I think I'm on the right track. It's just a matter of persistence and luck at this point. I normally hit south facing rocky hills or glades that are warmer and dryer than most amphibians prefer so I'm sure that explains why I don't find many. I'll definitely be checking north facing hillsides and the cooler moister areas I normally avoid a little better now. It's been raining cats and dogs here so I'm going to get off my computer, dig out my poncho, and go see if I have any luck today! I know a lot of great areas with potential, the problem is that everything floods so often here that it's very hard to find fish free ponds anywhere for the most part. I've read that they'll use ponds the size of what I'd consider puddles... I'm going to start using a minnow trap as well.

Any advice as far as what bait to use for Ambystoma larvae in bait traps? I just have one of those wire funnel traps but am considering making a few more out of 2 or 3 liter soda bottles and 5 gallon buckets... I normally use dog food to catch feeder fish for my turtles and to actually use as bait for bass and crappie fishing. I'm HOPEFULLY heading down to the Ozarks this weekend too and hoping to find a little more diversity (my main targets are caudates, speckled kingsnakes, and madtom catfish but I'm happy to find and photograph any herps or cool plants and creatures I encounter)...

Thanks again everyone, I'm all ears for any advice I can get. Ambystoma are my favorite groups of salamanders, I've just never really been able to "figure them out" to find them consistently (or at all for that matter here in Missouri)...

Cheers,
-Joe-

 

[Joe Blecha]

No luck yesterday newt/sally wise, I'm going back out to try to find spots that I haven't been to yet since going to the same places expecting different results is how many define insanity! :wacko:

Still curious on baits for traps (dog food hasn't been working for much of anything)...

Cheers,
-Joe-

 

[Greatwtehunter]

Still curious on baits for traps (dog food hasn't been working for much of anything)...

Manufactured catfish bait! That is the only thing I have found that actually seemed to increase the number of larvae in my traps. Just go to the sporting goods section of your local Wal-mart and you should be able to find bags of catfish bait that are pre-formed into balls. If they are out of the balls you can get the tubs of bait and make your own balls but I'd advise you to wear gloves because it will make your hands stink.

 

[Joe Blecha]

Awesome, I've actually got a bag of it in my tackle box already. I tried it last year but it was in an attempt to catch baby catfish at the local "watering hole". I'll give it a shot in my trap tonight in a more salamander friendly pond...

Cheers,
-Joe-

 

[deliriah]

Never tried bait for ambystomid larvae. Interesting to know. I usually do pretty well with a large fish net I attatched to an old colapsable tent pole for further reach. But then I go mostly where I know they are and even if I only scoop a small handfull I am happy. I guess I'm fairly easy to please when it comes to Ambystomids. I am in western Mass, and all the Ambystomids I find are maculatum. Perhaps I need to broaden my range