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Illness/Sickness: Convulsions...

Dax447

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Hi everyone - thanks in advance for any advice.

Our axolotl is called Lexi, not sure of the exact colour name, but she is pale with white eyes and pink gills. We've had her for around six months, she was mostly grown when we got her. She is in a large tank (600mm x 300mm x 300mm). We cycled the tank for several months before putting her in, we do weekly water changes and test frequently. There is usually maybe 0.25 of ammonia before water change, closer to zero afterwards. So far she has been fine and we haven't had any concerns. She does not appear to have any fungus or sloughing skin, and she doesn't look overly skinny. She seems to be pooping regularly. We feed her little fishes thawed from the freezer, sometimes prawns - products specially made for this purpose, from the local aquarium. She seems to like eating every 2-3 days, if we try to feed her more often she usually won't take it.

Something really weird happened yesterday when we tried to feed her, and again today. Both times we offered the fish, she took it in and then began having what can only be described as convulsions, violently spasming left and right almost in half, squirming all around the tank for maybe 30 seconds, then she spat the fish out and the spasms ended. She has not convulsed before that we have seen. The fish pieces weren't large, she has eaten them many times before, plus pieces twice the size without any hassles. We have no idea what is causing this, but we are reluctant to try to give her anything else until we figure out what's going on. We are hoping that someone here might be able to shed some light on this - it was quite scary and a bit upsetting to be honest!

Thanks :)
 

wolfen

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if she hasn't convulsed since being fed that piece of fish could just mean that it didn't agree with her and that the spasming was her effort to regurgitate it.
the ammonia level is quite harmless but because you said it is normal is a cause for concern as it could show that your biological filtration is at its limit.
what are the other water parameters.
 

Dax447

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if she hasn't convulsed since being fed that piece of fish could just mean that it didn't agree with her and that the spasming was her effort to regurgitate it.
the ammonia level is quite harmless but because you said it is normal is a cause for concern as it could show that your biological filtration is at its limit.
what are the other water parameters.
The ammonia rate has worried me over time. Today we did a half water change and also a total substrate change, from gravel to larger rocks and pebbles (too big for her to swallow). Have been thinking about doing it for a while, as the siphon we have never seemed to be sucking hard enough to really clean the gravel. I'm glad we did it, as I unearthed several old pieces of fish that had been buried. I attach a couple of photos of Lexi in the new environment.

Anyway after making this substrate change we tested the water again and got the following results. Ammonia - somewhere just over 0, not as much as 0.25 ppm, Nitrite - 0, nitrate - somewhere between 0 - 5 ppm. The filter we have is pictured below. It has a little bag of pebbles and a sponge in the filter area, we only rinse it with water from the tank. I'm not sure how to know if the biological filtration is at it's limit...

1655623604292.png
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1655623975052.jpeg
 

wolfen

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most of the time manufacturers put two sizes on their filters (although lately that doesn't seem to be the case) ie.. 15 - 40 gallon, in short this means.. bare tank - full substrate minimal waste. your filter is 35 gallon at full substrate minimal waste ie.. shrimp tank,
with bare tank filtration ie.. axolotl tank, the filter has to cope with all the biological filtration as well as debris filtration.
with full substrate tank the bacteria also colonise the substrate so the filter only has to hold a small bacteria colony and can mainly be used to remove debris in the water.
your biological filtration are the stones in the filter, these are seachem matrix, highly porous rocks (pumice) that allow bacteria to grow on and in them.
rather then removing and replacing the filter you have it would be cheaper to add an air-sponge filter to take up the slack.
you mention the tank/filter being cycled, how was it cycled?
 

Dax447

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If you have an axolotl it shouldn't be anything smaller than a 20 gallon tank
most of the time manufacturers put two sizes on their filters (although lately that doesn't seem to be the case) ie.. 15 - 40 gallon, in short this means.. bare tank - full substrate minimal waste. your filter is 35 gallon at full substrate minimal waste ie.. shrimp tank,
with bare tank filtration ie.. axolotl tank, the filter has to cope with all the biological filtration as well as debris filtration.
with full substrate tank the bacteria also colonise the substrate so the filter only has to hold a small bacteria colony and can mainly be used to remove debris in the water.
your biological filtration are the stones in the filter, these are seachem matrix, highly porous rocks (pumice) that allow bacteria to grow on and in them.
rather then removing and replacing the filter you have it would be cheaper to add an air-sponge filter to take up the slack.
you mention the tank/filter being cycled, how was it cycled?
Okay just did the actual maths - the tank is 23.2 gallons. The filter has a sponge in it as well as the pebbles. the tank was cycled via advice from the local aquarium, they had a product where I had to add various vials on different days over a 28 day period. there were also things to add to the water, a dechlorinater and a nutrient mix thingie. i kept the tank going for two months, having the water checked once a week at the aquarium until they said it was good to go.
 

wolfen

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ok I'm curious now as to what was used, I assume the vial probably contained a form of ammonia, dechlorinator would be used by adding to water prior to being added to the tank, nutrient mix could either be bacteria and enzymes for filter culture or ammonia based for bacteria food. either way I have never until this moment heard of a cycle being done with this method. was this method done to cycle it to be ready for fish or for an axolotl.
it sounds like it was cycled to handle fish but I don't know if it was cycled to handle an adult axolotl. adult axolotls can produce the same amount of waste as having an over stocked aquarium which is why cycling a tank is so important, with an axolotl the tank is cycled not just to get the bacteria colony formed so as to break down the waste but to also make sure that the filter can hold a large enough colony to cope with the waste of an adult axolotl.
your filter is a two stage filtration unit, mechanical.. which is the foam/sponge, this traps debris and will also provide a small amount or area to bacteria growth (which is why you never clean it with tap water only old tank water). biological.. this is the porous stones which allow room for bacteria to grow which the consume/convert ammonia/nitrites (never wash with tap water either).
as it is your axolotl looks fine with no obvious signs of stress or illness, although you will need to keep an eye on the ammonia levels and if you start getting nitrites then the filtration will have to be expanded.
because I didn't ask before, I know that you ammonia is <0.25ppm, nitrite is zero and your nitrate is <5ppm, what is the ph and temperature?
 

Dax447

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ok I'm curious now as to what was used, I assume the vial probably contained a form of ammonia, dechlorinator would be used by adding to water prior to being added to the tank, nutrient mix could either be bacteria and enzymes for filter culture or ammonia based for bacteria food. either way I have never until this moment heard of a cycle being done with this method. was this method done to cycle it to be ready for fish or for an axolotl.
it sounds like it was cycled to handle fish but I don't know if it was cycled to handle an adult axolotl. adult axolotls can produce the same amount of waste as having an over stocked aquarium which is why cycling a tank is so important, with an axolotl the tank is cycled not just to get the bacteria colony formed so as to break down the waste but to also make sure that the filter can hold a large enough colony to cope with the waste of an adult axolotl.
your filter is a two stage filtration unit, mechanical.. which is the foam/sponge, this traps debris and will also provide a small amount or area to bacteria growth (which is why you never clean it with tap water only old tank water). biological.. this is the porous stones which allow room for bacteria to grow which the consume/convert ammonia/nitrites (never wash with tap water either).
as it is your axolotl looks fine with no obvious signs of stress or illness, although you will need to keep an eye on the ammonia levels and if you start getting nitrites then the filtration will have to be expanded.
because I didn't ask before, I know that you ammonia is <0.25ppm, nitrite is zero and your nitrate is <5ppm, what is the ph and temperature?
Okay - I have looked everything up. Every time we put new water in we use a dechlorinator and also add Biotope Bio-Min (the bottle says: source of magnesium, calcium, carbonates, bi-carbonate potassium, chloride, reliable stabilising agent for water stability, assists with nitrification and filtration). The aquarium that advised me sells axolotls, and knew that's what I needed the tank for. They gave me this product, Aquarium Systems Freshwater – Start your Tank – Aquarium Store Melbourne | Marine & Accessories | Corals | Tropical Fish & Accessories | Tanks plus More - to set up the tank, and then there was weekly testing for a couple of months before adding the axolotl, and thereafter.

PH is 7.2. Temp at the moment is around 15 C (I'm in Australia). It was getting a bit too warm in summer so we had a fan going and used ice blocks. At this time of year it ranges between 10 - 16 most of the time.

She does seem fine at the moment in all aspects except the strange convulsions on feeding on the last two occasions. I tried to feed her last night, she wouldn't take anything. I will try again tonight and see what happens.
 

wolfen

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the aquarium starter kit is for fish cycling and wont ensure adequate biological filtration for adult axolotls.
it is good that the water is being supplemented with minerals to ensure water hardness, would really like to see a full chemical break down, but there isn't much info on web site.
15°c is very good, 7.2 is a tad low 7.4 - 7.6 being ideal, the chloride in the mineral supplement will help protect against nitrite damage (not the same as chlorine and chloramine found in tap water).
what is the tap ph?
what dechlorinator/conditioner are you using? is it also a biotope product?
it's good that they checked the tank before allowing the axolotl to be put in.
 

Dax447

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the aquarium starter kit is for fish cycling and wont ensure adequate biological filtration for adult axolotls.
it is good that the water is being supplemented with minerals to ensure water hardness, would really like to see a full chemical break down, but there isn't much info on web site.
15°c is very good, 7.2 is a tad low 7.4 - 7.6 being ideal, the chloride in the mineral supplement will help protect against nitrite damage (not the same as chlorine and chloramine found in tap water).
what is the tap ph?
what dechlorinator/conditioner are you using? is it also a biotope product?
it's good that they checked the tank before allowing the axolotl to be put in.
The dechlorinator is Seachem Prime - "Concentrated Conditioner for Marine and Freshwater". The pH in the tank does jump around a bit, between 7.2 and 7.4 usually. The tap water tests at around 7.0. Given that the axolotl tank is now established, is there something I can be doing now to ensure adequate biological filtration?
 

wolfen

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one of the easiest ways is fitting an air-sponge filter, porous rocks in the tank can also be used, basically anything that bacteria can colonise. also increasing the amount of bio-media in the filter will help.
 
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