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Cynops chenggongensis

michael

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These pictures are of Cynops I imported a couple years ago. They were sold to me as Cynops chenggongensis. They're starting to lay pretty well for me. Is C. chenggongensis a sub species of cyanurus or a separate species? Do these look like chenggongensis?
 

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Lusiwarrior

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C.chenggongensis? I know! I only know C.c.cyanurus and C.c.yunnanensis, and they seem to me to belong to the second subsespecie I mentioned!
Correct me if I am wrong!
I have helped!
 

Joost

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by my knowledge it is a different specie than cyanurus, altough they also belong to the wolterstorffi- group. There aren't much of them in the hobby, if I'm correct. You also have a PM.

regards Joost
 

nate

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Ah yes...love this topic! :eek:

I can't say for sure if they look like chenggongensis, because no one has a picture of the animals from the type locality. I'm of the opinion that the smaller animals currently very popular in the US trade that you and others currently breed and sell more closely resemble the original description of chenggongensis than of cyanurus. Until that taxonomic situation is resolved conslusively in China, we're all just guessing.

One guess is, your animals pictured there are cyanurus, but the offspring you sell as cyanurus are really chenggongensis.

Another likely scenario is that there's a species complex being overlooked and there's 4+ species of newts in the trade from China with orange dots behind their eyes that are all labeled as either species but in reality are neither.

Discuss!
 

Greatwtehunter

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Wasn't there a guide to this species posted on here somewhere that illustrated some of the differences in the type localities?

I happened to stumble across a few pictures on this page but I don't know how reliable it is.
 

Joost

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C.chenggongensis? I know! I only know C.c.cyanurus and C.c.yunnanensis, and they seem to me to belong to the second subsespecie I mentioned!
Correct me if I am wrong!
I have helped!

It's for sure that they don't belong to yunnanensis. Between the cloaca and the tail of yunnanensis, they have a dark stripe. Of the nominate form, it's all orange/yellow
 

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Joost

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here some clearer pictures of yunnanensis
 

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michael

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Ah yes...love this topic! :eek:

I can't say for sure if they look like chenggongensis, because no one has a picture of the animals from the type locality. I'm of the opinion that the smaller animals currently very popular in the US trade that you and others currently breed and sell more closely resemble the original description of chenggongensis than of cyanurus. Until that taxonomic situation is resolved conslusively in China, we're all just guessing.


Discuss!

The light and dark colored offspring I'm breeding and a number of others are breeding have come from Jennifer Macke. My understanding is they come from a small founding stock. Jennifer might have local data for them.

Several years ago I purchased some w.c. Cynops cyanurus at a reptile show. I think Justin Yeager and I bred them and I sold the breeders and some of the offspring. I was careful to keep them separate form Jennifer's line and sold the entire line that I got from the show.

I received 2 shipments of c.b. Cynops chenggongensis from Canada in the last 3 years. They are the line that is pictured in this thread.

Sunday I purchased some Cynops cyanurus at White Plains that appear to be different than the other lines I have. To avoid confusion I'm calling the animals what they were sold to me as. I'm not mixing animals from one purchase with animals from another purchase.

In the next week I'll post some pictures of Jennifer's line and the recent imports.

We can then chase our tails like a dog. Without accurate local data from a reputable source it's tough to tell what is what.
 

Joost

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according to my knowledge, C. chenggongensis is bigger than C. cyanurus. Besides that they look very similar to each other. Only C. c. yunnanensis is, according to the dark cloaca, a little different to the others
 

Lusiwarrior

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Hi,
by what was said, and with the evidence given by joostpopei, I understand that C.c.yunnanensis are not sure! What could be the end, another subspecies of C. cyanurus or else a subspecies sobreviente of C.wolterstorffi? That would be great, would mean that they were not completely extinct! By the way anyone know where you can see pictures of C.wolterstorffi? Whatever you do michael preserve the untouchables! ;)
 

Jennewt

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I don't have any locality information about the C.c. animals that I have. (And you can take your pick for what I mean by "C.c." Could be cyanurus or chenggonensis!)

The sad thing is... I am trying to write a caresheet for this "species", but it's pretty hard when I don't know what species I'm even talking about. Yeah, I love this topic too!:eek:
 

eljorgo

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Lusi. No these guys crealy can´t be Subsp. of wolterstorffi .
C. Wolterstorffi were bigger more dark, more reddish bellies and with strong tendency to neotenic behaviour. I would suggest something around the C.Cyanurus.. they are clearly very look a like but i am not expert enough in these guys so good luck Michael.
 

michael

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Here are some pictures of Cynops c. from Jennifer's line. What species would you call them? What mutation would you call the ones lacking some of their pigment?
 

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Jennewt

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Here are some pictures of Cynops c. from Jennifer's line. What species would you call them? What mutation would you call the ones lacking some of their pigment?
I don't think they are a mutation. This line is just highly variable in body color. Mine are equally variable.
 

michael

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I don't think they are a mutation. This line is just highly variable in body color. Mine are equally variable.

The real pale ones have no black on the belly. They have little black on their body. They do have black eyes. I'm not real up to date on all of the lack of pigment mutations. My guess is still that it is probably a genetic mutation. I would guess something like leucistic.
 

paul_b

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AW: Re: Cynops chenggongensis

Hi,
...By the way anyone know where you can see pictures of C.wolterstorffi? ...
Here it is:
Salamanderseiten

I saw at least three clearly different forms of cyanurus/chenggongensis. Different in colour and body!
Nobody knows anything about their origin!
So, all is speculation nothing is sure!
I think, each valley in Yunnan can have an own form (local variant/subspecies/species).

Go to China and look in the habitats - then you know what species you see!

Paul
 

eljorgo

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That´s and awesome idea. I am thinking in do it really soon... Some of these days:happy:
 

j2quinn

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i would try to find a copy of the book Patterns of distribution of amphibians: a global perspective written by: W. Duellman. There is some information on C. chenggongensis for what it is worth.
 
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