Desmognathus ID?

[Lamb]

I know that Desmognathus IDs can be a pain, but I wanted to get your input as to what Des. species this might be. From what is in the area, I've got it narrowed down to D. auriculatus and D. conanti. I've been looking for the lighter dorsal ragged edged spots that often show up in D. conanti, and hav enot seen them. I know that D. auriculatus as an adult can have various color phases, one of which included dark dorsolateral stripes (like this larvae is showing).

Has anyone seen D. auriculatus or D. conanti larvae? Any tips? Also, any idea how long till morph? From what I've read, it can take a few months, but a friend who raises salamanders says two months tops. This guy is about an inch from snout to tip of tail.

 

[taherman]

My first guess is actually a Eurycea, maybe guttolineata from the Desmog options you gave.

 

[Lamb]

Even with the head as wide as it is at the jowls? Granted, I have had little experience with larval caudates, but my herp. professor thinks its a Desmognathus.

 

[taherman]

Ok, looked for a key (a few regional ones online and a complete one in Petranka) to support my hypothesis ....I think you can readily distinguish the larvae of Desmognathus by the gills. If the ramus is shorter than the filaments (basically indistinguishable), it's Desmognathus. This results in a clump of long gill filaments that look rather pompom-like. If the filaments are shorter than the ramus and clearly arranged on separate rami it is something else (probably Eurycea since it's a stream-type larva that is definitely not Pseudotriton or Gyrinophilus). Hard to see clearly in the photo, but I'm pretty sure I can see the separate gill rami on your larva.

My general impression of small Desmog larvae is that they have almost no snout, and have eyes situated VERY far forward on the head. Also the longitudinal dark stripes and yellowish coloration make it even more Eurycea-like.

Who is your herp professor? I welcome any corrections if I'm wrong about distinguishing the larvae, but I'm pretty sure that method of IDing desmogs is correct.

-Tim

 

[Lamb]

You know, Tim, I think you might be right. I've looked through the keys I could find online, and at positive pictures of Desmog. larval IDs, and the gills don't look right for a Desg. The ramus are larger than the filaments (see the photo attached). Another feature of Desmog., from what I've read, is that their hind limbs are wider than the forelimbs, which is not the case with this guy. I'm sending the pics. around to get more opinions, but I might indeed have a Eurycea on my hands.

Jen

 

[Lamb]

I wasn't sure the photo posted, so here it is. You can see the ramus are longer than the filaments.