Dicamptodon Breeding, has it been done?

John

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I've never heard of it. These are probably as difficult as Tigers to breed.
 

AU SalamanderRG

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So, I guess talking about availability is out of the question, then. :(
 

John

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Yes you're right.
 

Melmo

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I see them on kingsnake.com, but they are obviously WC and rather expensive. I've seen 60-85 American dollars.
 

John

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The sad part about all of that is that I believe in much of their range it is illegal to collect those animals, let alone sell them. Bless Kingsnake's heart though - both a blessing of a web site and a curse of a web site.
 

Melmo

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The website itself deserves less of a curse than the people who do the illegal collecting. Of course, the website being there is kind of a motivation. Dicamptodon really has some amazing salamanders, I'd like to see one in person.
 

John

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The website itself deserves less of a curse than the people who do the illegal collecting. Of course, the website being there is kind of a motivation. Dicamptodon really has some amazing salamanders, I'd like to see one in person.
I find the sheer volume of wild-caught reptiles and amphibians on kingsnake to be sickening. I find it disgusting that Jeff Barringer purports to be a spokesperson for herp enthusiasts, yet he facilitates the wholesale pillaging and sale of wild US reptiles and amphibians. Some will argue that if it's legal then good for him but much of what goes through those classifieds is of dubious legality (e.g. all the Bufo alvarius are either illegally collected or illegally exported over state lines, one or the other) and while US law might not forbid the mass collection of most wild animal species, surely if Mr Barringer has a conscience he would at least try to curb such legal activity on his site. Oh well.
 

otolith

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Within California at least, it is legal to collect Dicamptodon sp. with a fishing license, but catching for the intent to sell them is definitely illegal.
 

zippybomb

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Is it even legal to breed and sell them? It would be great to be able to do that, than people in other parts of Canada could be able to keep them even though they don't live here. It would also reduce collecting. I am fortunate to be in the only place in Canada where these guys live.
 

otolith

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zippybomb-

I imagine the legality of selling native species varies greatly upon location. I think the biggest hurdle with making Dicamptodon sp. avaliable to people beyond the west coast is actually getting them to breed. Replicating the environments in which Dicamps breed is probably even more difficult than tigers since they prefer cold coastal streams above all other avaliable water bodies. Breeding neotenic adults would probably be easier but that presents the challenge of actually finding a pair. I have heard that neoteny is common with Dicamps but have never found any that were aquatic greater than 4". The best of luck to anyone whot tries!
 

zippybomb

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I'm hoping to catch some this spring. I'm probably not going to be able to breed them but i'll try.
 

stablefly

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Is it even legal to breed and sell them? It would be great to be able to do that, than people in other parts of Canada could be able to keep them even though they don't live here. It would also reduce collecting. I am fortunate to be in the only place in Canada where these guys live.

It is not legal to trade or posses this animal in our province so breeding in BC is illegal by virtue. I have been up to look at these guys in the wild in our province ( with the supervision of a fisheries officer buddy of mine). it has been years since I have seen one and the streams I used to see them in have been more or less destroyed I've heard. It's ironic that you can go to jail for collecting hem but its fine to build a subdivision on one of the the only plots of land they exist on in the country. ( and I am not in any way condoning collecting them here, I'm just pointing out irony.)
Back in the day when i worked at the Vancouver Aquarium we had two larval adults on display. I'm not sure how they acquired them but they were probably local.
 

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To my knowledge it has not been done and little is known about these amazing creatures. The more we find the more we want to know. Their prime habitat has been taken away from them which are now Homes, Dairies, Hospitable's, Roads. Not to Mention Animal Fecal Runoff, Pesticides, And the Biggest is "Ignorance" to the degradation of surface water runoff. They are very sensitive to water quality. I had a baby salamander for several months, in this short period of time he had grown to extremely large size 11" to 12" feed night crawlers and he was no more than 6 months old. I Thought he would like some branches in his environment to climb on ect. He was dead within an 1 hour be cause of the toxic tan-ins
in the redwoods. Now they live in the middle of the red woods, go figure. I saw a female in the middle of the night foraging for food in the rain she was 14" long and pure white not an albino but her camouflage had swiched to white. They are very good at camo. Phase shift very subtle within 1 minute. They can travel great distances. We had just turned onto Hwy 1 traveling inland along the coast at about 1 mile spotted a rare Santa Cruz Salamander doing what I would call a salamander slow jog. He was headed down this mountain on the flat of the road just stating to cross on my side, as we passed him he was at the edge heading down, this angle downward was hard to imagine anything going down without a serious roll, how he got up was sure determination.;)

Al Rice
 

Argus654

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Up here in Washington it's legal to catch a limit of 5 reptiles/amphibians, with the exception of bull frogs, per year with a fishing licence. As for breeding them in captivity...The only 2 ways that I'd think it could be accoplished is 1. Have a large tank of 100 gallons or more that rplicates their habitat in the wild. 2. that you have an enclosed garden pond that replicates their natural habitat. I think the best luck for breeding will happen with my second suggestion, sice it'll be outside and subject to the whims of nature in terms of weather and being exposed to the natural weather patterns may help to stimulate breeding with them. And that's what I got so far with most of it being guess work, but I hope it helps all the same.
 

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A reply to Alan concerning tannin in redwood and Dicamptodon:

The last time I found these creatures in the wild was decades ago, and it was in a mixed forest of live oak and redwood near--as I recall--near Jenner, CA.. I found both Dicamptodon and Ensatina there, but only under pieces of oak. Never under pieces of redwood.
 

Lisa 8

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I have been breeding them for about 4 years. Courtship is much like the Ambystomatids. Egg deposition is fun to watch.
 

Otterwoman

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That's so exciting!!! Tell us more about it, because we would love to have some tips on breeding these and other ambystomids! They are so difficult for most of us.
 

crypticmonk

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Yes, please tell us! Don't leave us hanging!

Lisa 8, please keep breeding them, and sell the babies on caudata...I'd love to buy some ;)
 
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Im sure there is a guy in Europe who breeds them and has neotenic larvae from them sometimes!
 
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