Does my pond have Necturus?

[Nowicki418]

We have a permanent fish pond that is very close to a vernal pond. The vernal pond is on the neighbors property. While I was talking to the neighbor a while ago he mentioned seeing something strange a few years back. What he described fits the description of a mudpuppy perfectly! It was seen in a wet area between the two ponds. I know there are other things it could be, but I live in Michigan so the only species that fit are a mudpuppy or a large ambystoma larvae.

I've been looking for amphibians at this pond for years but most of those were when I was a little kid. Only for about 2 years now have I been able to do true herping so I don't think it is impossible that a population eluded me for so long. The pond was manmade like 15 years ago. Its not small but not huge.

If this was an ambystoma larvae than many factors would had to line up for the larvae to survive and grow to be a large size instead of changing to an adult. However, if there is a small chance we have a population of mudpuppies I'd like put some effort into finding out for sure. I look around at the pond edges both day and night so I know basic searching isn't enough.

I understand the chances are small and a simple description from an animal seen years ago isn't much to go on. But any advice on methods used to search for Necturus species?

 

[JessKB]

I bet it was a tiger larvae. A mudpuppy wouldn't leave the water, and you said it was seen between the two ponds. I would assume that it was a morphing tiger that left the nearby vernal pool. People are famous for over estimating how large something is, and "fish stories" always seem to grow with time.
I also doubt that necturus would be in your pond unless they were purposely introduced there because it's so young, and you didn't mention a connection to another large body of water. How deep is the pond? From what I've gathered, necturus stay in the depths during the hot months, and only venture to the shallows when it's cold out. Also, necturus up here pretty much only live in rivers or lakes.
You could toss a minnow trap out there and see if you can come up with anything. If I were you, I would be way more excited about finding a tiger population then necturus in MI, tigers are hard to come by, while necturus really aren't.

 

[Nowicki418]

Yeah your probably right. When your there talking with someone you forget that size can be exagerated sometimes. If it was a tiger than this means I have two vernal ponds with tiger salamanders breeding in them. The one mentioned in in a marshy grassy area and the other is in the middle of the woods. I'll have to be sure to spend a few extra hours at this pond when it fills up next year.

I do most of my field herping within a 10 mile radius of my house. Next year I will be able to drive around state by myself but untill then most of my understanding of Michigan herps is a little bias. Are tiger salamanders uncommon in Michigan? At my home they are the most common. I've mentioned finding the larvae and adults on this website before and I get similar responses that they are a difficult find. Truthfully I don't think finding them is difficult at all. Finding a tiger is cool but nothing to get excited about. In fact talking with people in this part of the state, not just locally, they seem to be the most commonly encountered. As I said I don't get to go field herping across state very much, is this an uncommon species most places?

JessKB, you say that Necturus aren't hard to come by? I've never seen one in the wild before and I haven't talked with many that have. Is there some kind of trick or method to finding them rather than just going out at night with a spotlight? I think both tigers and Necturus are broken up into isolated populations across MI. While one area may have lots of mudpuppies the next does not and has lots of tigers instead.

 

[JessKB]

Tigers are uncommon in most of the state, with a few places that have a lot of them. You're lucky if you do. Also, from what I've heard from other users on here, MI tiger populations are extremely subteranian. They come out to breed, then go back underground. Your chances of "flipping" one are a lot smaller than in other places. Personally, I have only ever found one tiger salamander in MI.

Necturus are much more common in MI, fishermen catch them quite frequently. Especially ice fishermen. My uncle whom is an avid icefisherman sees them all the time, along with many other people I know. Also, their population encompasses the entire state and all the great lakes surrounding it. The reason why the average person doesn't find them all the time is because in the summer months they are deep down in the water where it is very cool. You can only find them in shallow water during late fall and early spring.I'm not saying that necturus are in every body of water, but I think their overall population is certainly higher.

You mentioned that many people you've talked with say tigers are very common, are these "salamander people" or just your average Joe? I figure that a spotted salamander and a tiger will be confused by the average person, or they will assume they are the same species.
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[Nowicki418]

The people I've talked with about tigers would be "average joes". There is a chance they are confusing them with yellow spotted salamanders but I have only ever seen 1 of those. ( Tried to go to a place for a large spotted migration in the spring but it was canceled due to bad weather )

 

[theJATM]

i have only seen one tiger salamander in the wild, it was years ago, and in the fall. it was on our drive way, chilling. big one too, probably 10 inches. but i was also 13, so i might have been wrong. i catch spotted salamanders all the time, a huge one earlier this summer.

ive never caught a necturus, though i really want to, and put one in a tank.

i should also point out i live in lapeer, michigan. so about an hour north of ypsi.