Illness/Sickness: HELP!!Axolotl upside down at the bottom of tank!

[Jaxolotl27]

HELP!!!! Just came home to find one of my axolotls upside down at the bottom of the tank!!! His tank mates are perfectly fine, and the water is perfectly fine, and this morning I fed them night crawlers and they were all perfectly normal and everyone ate! However the worms I gave them were pretty big but they all still ate and were doing fine! I have taken him out put him in a smaller container with water just enough to cover him so he’s sitting back upright and I added ice and an air stone bubbler.... I don’t know what’s wrong or what happened or what else I can do! I know he’s super stressed bc his tail is curved and of course the whole fact of him being upside down. I first thought maybe he was bloating bc the worms were too big but then I thought he would be floating at the top of the tank and he was not, he was just upside down on the bottom... HELP PLEASE!! Does anyone know what to do or has anyone else seen this before? TIA

 

[wolfen]

would need to see photos to see if he/she is bloated, there is bloating by air lock which cause them to float and there is bloating due to fluid build up which doesn't cause floating issues.
what is your temp/ph/ammonia/nitrite/nitrate levels and also is possible kh/gh

 

[Autistic Catholic]

Saying things are "perfectly fine" doesn't give a lot of information. Exact measures are needed if you're going to get help. Check your parameters as some axolotls don't notice bad water as much as others. Also, is it possible that he was attacked by his tank mates?

 

[Jaxolotl27]

would need to see photos to see if he/she is bloated, there is bloating by air lock which cause them to float and there is bloating due to fluid build up which doesn't cause floating issues.
what is your temp/ph/ammonia/nitrite/nitrate levels and also is possible kh/gh

All of my levels are within normal ranges.. however i don’t know what kh/gh are?he doesn’t look bloated at all, he wasn’t floating.. he was just upside down at the bottom of the tank..Right now I have him in a container with water from my fridge and I put a air stone in there and he is wanting to stay right up against the airstone... I want to put him in the fridge but I wasn’t exactly sure at what the temperature should be in there and wanted to make sure that was right before I put him in there... I’m so sad I do not want him to die....

 

[Jaxolotl27]

Saying things are "perfectly fine" doesn't give a lot of information. Exact measures are needed if you're going to get help. Check your parameters as some axolotls don't notice bad water as much as others. Also, is it possible that he was attacked by his tank mates?

When I said perfectly fine I meant that all of the parameters are within normal ranges.. also I’ve never seen any aggression between them in the tank and he doesn’t have any marks or wounds on him like he was attacked or anything.. he’s actually starting to walk around now since I posted the pictures from above and his tail isn’t as curved as it was before it seems pretty straight now... I’m going to do another water change and see if I can get him in the fridge...

 

[Jaxolotl27]

Also I did try offering him some bloodworms last night and he seemed to want to eat them but then he would just immediately spit them right back out... I’m not sure if that was the right move or if I should continue to try and offer him bites to eat?

 

[Jaxolotl27]

This is after I changed his water... I gave him a little bit more water this time, since he was walking around so much but I will keep a close eye on him to make sure he doesn’t flip upside down again and in that case If he does I will remove the extra water back to just barely covering over his back..

 

[Autistic Catholic]

When I said perfectly fine I meant that all of the parameters are within normal ranges..

What are your normal ranges? This is why it's important to read us out the exact parameters so it can be insured it is nothing to do with the water. There is no sense begging for help if you aren't willing to help us rule out the water conditions. We had one user on here who insisted back in December that they weren't too concerned about keeping their axolotl at the temperatures of 24-29C as those were "normal".

 

[wolfen]

no he/she isn't bloated, make sure that you have enough air-stones in the tank to keep it oxygenated, he/she has a little bit of nippage to the tail but that could just be normal over enthusiasm on the part of one of your other axolotls, what substrate is in the tank.

 

[Jaxolotl27]

What are your normal ranges? This is why it's important to read us out the exact parameters so it can be insured it is nothing to do with the water. There is no sense begging for help if you aren't willing to help us rule out the water conditions. We had one user on here who insisted back in December that they weren't too concerned about keeping their axolotl at the temperatures of 24-29C as those were "normal".

That’s insane, I may not be extremely experienced with keeping axolotls but even I know that those temperature ranges are extremely to high... I follow all the ranges listed on axolotl.org and am within normal ranges between those.. I live in the outskirts and on well water so my water is extremely good and every time I test it is always within normal ranges, however sometimes the Ph may be a little higher then normal and in that Case I add the ph decrease but that is the only thing that has ever been out of range.. not to mention my axolotls have been perfectly fine living on this water for 6+ months.. I understand your concern as there are a lot of arrogant people out there but I assure you I am not one and do my best at keeping them in perfect ranges and conditions.. I've never had a problem before. I’m at work right now so when I get home later I will retest waters and give you exact parameters to show you that they’re within the correct range..

 

[Autistic Catholic]

That’s insane, I may not be extremely experienced with keeping axolotls but even I know that those temperature ranges are extremely to high...

Don't even get me started on the person who insisted their tank was plenty big for six axolotls - size: 20g.

 

[Jaxolotl27]

no he/she isn't bloated, make sure that you have enough air-stones in the tank to keep it oxygenated, he/she has a little bit of nippage to the tail but that could just be normal over enthusiasm on the part of one of your other axolotls, what substrate is in the tank.

Yeah I didn’t think he was bloated because he didn’t look like it and he wasn’t floating at all.. I’m at work right now but when I left this morning he seemed to be acting a little better and was walking around quite a bit in the container I have him in.. i just called home(my bf is home with him right now) and he said he is upright and breathing good still just hanging out in the container same as he was this morning.. I have one large 6” rectangle air stone and one small 1” air stone in a 40 gallon... I’ve never put any substrate on the bottom because I was always too scared of the horror stories I’ve read about all the different substrates.. so he’s always just been on a clean flat glass bottom.. I had a filter in there previously but took it out about two months ago bc I felt it was giving off too much current so they’ve just been with those two air stones and have been doing fine with that.. they have multiple caves to hide under as well.. and i do water changes every 10 days. Maybe on the way home I’ll stop and buy a smaller filter to add back to the tank?!?

 

[Jaxolotl27]

Don't even get me started on the person who insisted their tank was plenty big for six axolotls - size: 20g.

Omg that’s horrible!!! Poor babies!!!! No I have four axolotls total but two per 40 gallon tank, and they’re only about 12-13 months old so they’re still only about 7” or 8”

 

[wolfen]

That’s insane, I may not be extremely experienced with keeping axolotls but even I know that those temperature ranges are extremely to high... I follow all the ranges listed on axolotl.org and am within normal ranges between those.. I live in the outskirts and on well water so my water is extremely good and every time I test it is always within normal ranges, however sometimes the Ph may be a little higher then normal and in that Case I add the ph decrease but that is the only thing that has ever been out of range.. not to mention my axolotls have been perfectly fine living on this water for 6+ months.. I understand your concern as there are a lot of arrogant people out there but I assure you I am not one and do my best at keeping them in perfect ranges and conditions.. I've never had a problem before. I’m at work right now so when I get home later I will retest waters and give you exact parameters to show you that they’re within the correct range..

when you say the ph in the well water is high, what is the ph, does the ph fluctuate.
depending on what the ph is it sounds like you are getting mineralised water which is very good and provided it isn't to high in ph may be ok without the ph reducer.
axolotls don't have a swim bladder so when they get air or any gas in them they can't control balance or ballast so they can end up flipping over which is why being tubbed with feet on the base keeps them upright.
the reason I say gas is even without getting air from the surface they can still get a face full of nitrogen gas and hydrogen sulphide produced by any denitrifying bacteria either in substrate ie.. sand or from under ornaments/rocks etc anywhere there is oxygen dead zones, this is why making sure the water is oxygenated and any sand etc is regularly turned is very important. have you noticed a bad smell at any time

 

[Jaxolotl27]

when you say the ph in the well water is high, what is the ph, does the ph fluctuate.
depending on what the ph is it sounds like you are getting mineralised water which is very good and provided it isn't to high in ph may be ok without the ph reducer.
axolotls don't have a swim bladder so when they get air or any gas in them they can't control balance or ballast so they can end up flipping over which is why being tubbed with feet on the base keeps them upright.
the reason I say gas is even without getting air from the surface they can still get a face full of nitrogen gas and hydrogen sulphide produced by any denitrifying bacteria either in substrate ie.. sand or from under ornaments/rocks etc anywhere there is oxygen dead zones, this is why making sure the water is oxygenated and any sand etc is regularly turned is very important. have you noticed a bad smell at any time

The ph is usually around 8.0-8.2, so it’s not too high but higher then the average.. I don’t have any sand in their tank, nor have I ever put sand in with them bc I was always too scared too! I have three hideouts for them. one is pretty open the other two are like a rock cave with only one opening on them... my tank is still the same and my other axolotls are doing great, no sign of anything from them. Also I’ve never had a bad smell from either tank. Now as far as progress on how my Archie is doing I would say he seems to be doing a little better but then I’m still seriously concerned with him! I still have him separated in a small container with minimal water in it so he wouldn’t flip over, however the day before yesterday I added more water to see if he was still going to flip upside down and he hasn’t, so that was a plus! It’s like some days he just lays there in the same spot the whole time while other days he was walking around quite a bit, but more then anything he just lays there! Also, he has been keeping his front feet backwards, like his little hands are flipped over so the top of them are on the ground.. it’s weird! Also he seemed to always have an appetite but then he would just spit his food right back out, I tried offering him multiple different foods as well and all with the same outcome of him spitting it back out! However up until today he actually ate some small worms and held them down, he definitely didn’t eat the amounts he normally does but I’ll take him holding anything down as a plus! he stills seems To have an appetite, as he doesn’t hesitate to bite at it which is concerning bc he just keeps spitting it back out.. also about 10-15minutes after he ate and held it down today I noticed he got a little wobbly like he was going to flip upside down again but this time he was able to correct himself.. Still with me being the worrier that I am, as soon as I saw that I took some of that extra water out of his container shuts in case and so he wasn’t struggling or stressing himself out trying to maintain his upright position.. once I removed the little extra water he seemed fine.. I’ve been trying to read about common sicknesses and illnesses but everything I have read doesn’t seem to fit his bill... I’m trying to be optimistic but it also breaks my heart to see him like this bc I can just tell he doesn’t feel good, as he definitely is not acting like his normal self.. I just keep taking it day by day and praying that he overcomes this all and pulls through! I also just wanted to say thank you so much for trying to help me and also teaching me more things about axolotl health! I greatly appreciate you taking the time out if your day just to help me and my baby Archie out!!

 

[wolfen]

unlike a fish axolotls don't have a swim bladder to help correct them whilst swimming or if they have swallowed air from the surface, this is why when an axolotl gulps air it floats for a while then it releases it from its mouth like a burp, sometimes the air moves further into the axolotl causing them to float tail up, other times they have a small amount trapped which causes them to hover above the tank base and sometimes they end up flipping over, this is why your axolotl needs tubbing with a air-stone in shallow water, the air-stone is to deter surface gulping and the shallow water is to stop him/her floating until the gas has made it's way through his/her body.
normally I would recommend to always use a form of holtfreters in any aquarium containing an axolotl but because it sounds like your water already has a large mineral content the only chemical missing would be salt so I would recommend using 2g per litre of salt in any water containing a axolotl.
kh stands for carbonate hardness and gh is general hardness.

 

[Autistic Catholic]

I agree with wolfen. If you haven't, put an air stone in his tub to deter surface gulping. Also, he's going to be fine. He just needs to burp. It probably looks worse to you than to him because of the body position. It certainly is stressful but not life threatening.

 

[Jaxolotl27]

unlike a fish axolotls don't have a swim bladder to help correct them whilst swimming or if they have swallowed air from the surface, this is why when an axolotl gulps air it floats for a while then it releases it from its mouth like a burp, sometimes the air moves further into the axolotl causing them to float tail up, other times they have a small amount trapped which causes them to hover above the tank base and sometimes they end up flipping over, this is why your axolotl needs tubbing with a air-stone in shallow water, the air-stone is to deter surface gulping and the shallow water is to stop him/her floating until the gas has made it's way through his/her body.
normally I would recommend to always use a form of holtfreters in any aquarium containing an axolotl but because it sounds like your water already has a large mineral content the only chemical missing would be salt so I would recommend using 2g per litre of salt in any water containing a axolotl.
kh stands for carbonate hardness and gh is general hardness.

Sorry I thought I had clarified this before but i most have missed writing avoutb

unlike a fish axolotls don't have a swim bladder to help correct them whilst swimming or if they have swallowed air from the surface, this is why when an axolotl gulps air it floats for a while then it releases it from its mouth like a burp, sometimes the air moves further into the axolotl causing them to float tail up, other times they have a small amount trapped which causes them to hover above the tank base and sometimes they end up flipping over, this is why your axolotl needs tubbing with a air-stone in shallow water, the air-stone is to deter surface gulping and the shallow water is to stop him/her floating until the gas has made it's way through his/her body.
normally I would recommend to always use a form of holtfreters in any aquarium containing an axolotl but because it sounds like your water already has a large mineral content the only chemical missing would be salt so I would recommend using 2g per litre of salt in any water containing a axolotl.
kh stands for carbonate hardness and gh is general hardness.

im sorry I thought I clarified this before or maybe I just missed over it but they have always plenary of air going into their tanks, they have two air stones in each tank and I have never once seen them going up to the top to gulp for air and I watch them very close especially Archie with the condition he is in... right now he is in a small Tupperware tote container and he still has a decent air stone in it.. and again he’s not floating so he’s not gulping air to make him float as again he never floated he was just upside down at the bottom of the tank.. the last four or five days he’s been the same however still has his front feet positioned backwards it’s very weird.. he is still eating but I have noticed now a continuance that every time I feed him he will flip over upside down and be on his back again and then I flip him right and we will do this for about an hour after he eats, and he is still in shallow water so it’s almost impossible to flip over and he will go for hours sometimes days (usually 2) without flipping but then within the first hour after he eats he’s flipping over but he’s not floating... I’ve tried back and fourth adding more water and removing water to see how he does and as long as it’s not after feeding time he’s fine and will stay up right but once he’s ate he’s flipping over again, but again he’s not floating and then I remove water back to the minimal again.. also I feed him under water as well so it’s not like he’s gulping air as he’s eating either... I feel like he’s having agars time movingboth his front and back legs but it’s just soo weird! I know you stated 2g per liter of salt water but I do not think he’s even in a full liter of water but I will measure dosages out tomorrow and see how he does from there. Just to be sure what kind of sale should i be using as I have read Multiple people using all different kinds..does the salt work in some type of way as like antibiotic or is there anything else I can do for him in case it’s something internally going on with him?!

 

[Jaxolotl27]

I agree with wolfen. If you haven't, put an air stone in his tub to deter surface gulping. Also, he's going to be fine. He just needs to burp. It probably looks worse to you than to him because of the body position. It certainly is stressful but not life threatening.

He has had an air stone in with him the whole time and in his normal tank he’s had two airstones. I have never once seen any of my axolotls surface gulping as they have a sufficient amount or air going into their tanks.. he’s also not bloating as his belly is not big and he is also not floating. He just flips upside down.. he will be completely fine and moving around a little bit more and I’ll add a little more water to his hospital tank as I feel like he’s doing better but then the moment he eats within and hour or less he’s back upside down again, not floating at the bottom so then I repeat the process remove water to the bare minimum so he can’t flip even those sometimes he still will with minimal water. I do not surface feed him as he eats completely under the water and asi was stating to Wolfen I have never seen any of my axolotls surface gulp as they have plenty of airstones in their tanks.. I’m happy he is eating but he’s still not eating the normal amount he would consume before and I don’t feel like he is progressing as I think this has been going on for a little over a week.. it’s incredibly weird and has me clueless as I cannot find any information regarding any of the symptoms he has! I will try and get a good pic of how he’s hold his legs cut just doesn’t seem right to me! This boy is my favorite out of all my axies and had the best personality over all, he was super active and always willing to swim up to the tank to approach me.. he was also very playful and just a kick to watch so me having to see him just sitting at the bottom of his tank hardly moving is killing me! I wish there was some type of abtibiotiv or something to give him that wouldn’t hurt him in case he’s got something systemic going on or bacterial but i just don’t see it at all... it’s incredibly strange! I added these pictures as you can see how he’s holding his one front foot backwards like that and normally it is both of them that are like that and hes just been keeping them that way... ugh ps the speckles you see in the water arent actually in the water it’s just the white board that’s underneath his hospital tank.. I clean his water every day and it’s always in extremely good condition!

 

[wolfen]

what food are you giving your axolotl?
axolotls are from a slightly brackish high mineral environment, although the majority survive quite well in freshwater it is healthier to have salts and minerals added to the water.
you can use marine salt or any salt that hasn't been refined and had iodine added,