Help!! - Possibly sick or injured Axolotl - need assistance!

[KerfuffleFace]

Hello,

Hoping someone may be able to assist me with what is going on on the underside of my Axolotl. Over the couple of months he has developed some worsening marks all along the underside of his belly and upper tale that now look really raw and worrisome. It almost appears he has split open and then partially healed to best describe it, but again it occurred seemingly over time and is worsening. There are areas of large and small protruding bumps, areas that look very raw or split open, and also he always appears to have small amounts of loose skin in that area that hang from him or fall away to the bottom of the tank (like dead skin falling away from an open wound) He is still pooping every week or so, and is still eating, though he is throwing up food slightly more than usual. I had a sand substrate in the tank for years 2-5 but removed it about a month ago worrying that he may be swallowing sand. I also had a fairly bad case of detritus worms for over a year(year 4) that I eventually realized was being caused by not having a top on the tank (which is now resolved and the worm issue has mostly resolved itself)

I have had him over 5 years and here are some specs for the tank:

sex: i believe male from his cloaca
tank temperature - steady 20 degrees Celsius (68 Fahrenheit)
ammonia - 0
nitrite - 0
nitrate - 0
pH - 7.6
High range pH - 7.8

What water conditioner are you using?

water changes: 20% every week / 10 days
water conditioner: prime

Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated as im beginning to worry about him - thank you so much in advance

Stu Masterton

 

[leomleite]

Hey,

I've never seen any wounds like this. At first look, it seems to be worse on the cloaca area. It MIGHT be bacterial.
I'd start putting some indian almond leaves and/or tea baths. But this wound deserve a trip to the vet, for sure.

Sorry for not being so helpful, I hope it gets better...

 

[Calgarycoppers]

How is your nitrate 0?

That would mean an uncycled tank?

Are you sure about your results as they seem unrealistic

I would up your water changes to 50% every 7 days and Try and get the tank colder. you really want 15-18 degrees - 20 degrees steady allows them to be more susceptible to issues.

 

[KerfuffleFace]

Thanks to you both for the responses - my vet is looking into finding a colleague who specializes more on Amphibians.

In regards to the nitrate levels, i had similar thoughts as yourself when i measured them, but i can confirm i did one nitrate test 3 weeks ago after doing two 50% water changes (7 days apart) and did a second test just before posting this article (and have been doing 20% water changes since) He is the only thing in the tank and i am generally pretty particular about over feeding and removing extra food and waste from his tank but i was expecting some nitrate readings as well - i just did them a third time and can confirm they are 0. My tank is 20 litres and he is the only thing in it.

I have posted a couple of better pictures below showing the damage to his underside, i will post a couple of more pictures shortly showing him from other angles to see if they are any help - thanks to all who read these pleas for assistance - i am so worried he is in pain more than anything - they seem to be worsening even in the last few days since my original post - He has both pooed this morning and thrown up again. He seems to be floating slightly more than usual, but this is minor and may just be in my head. He is otherwise moving around his tank fairly actively and snapping up the food as usual. I am only feeding him a couple pellets every 2 days at this point.

I will be getting him to a vet asap but hedging my bets in case anyone has seen this before!

Much appreciated

Stu Masterton

 

[KerfuffleFace]

Update - Here are a couple more general pictures to give some reference
also - have him booked at a vet tomorrow that specializes in exotic animals and amphibians but im still seeking assistance here as well - could this be aging / tumors?

 

[Binditheaxolotl]

Update - Here are a couple more general pictures to give some reference
also - have him booked at a vet tomorrow that specializes in exotic animals and amphibians but im still seeking assistance here as well - could this be aging / tumors?

How’s he doing? What did the vet say?

 

[KerfuffleFace]

Hey - Thanks for the Concern Bindi! - so went to the vet, they were great though I wish I could have been with my Axy (Wermit is his name btw - we figured he looked like a white kermit the frog) during the exam(had to be outside due to covid) - the verdict by the vet is that since we bought him 5+ years ago and he was almost full grown at that time that he is 7+ possibly older and that likely all of this is indeed tumors / cancer. The vet couldn't give a firm verdict as she had not seen the like either. We purchased antibiotics in case it was something else, and gave him 5 days of 3 hour baths in that, along with a 30 min salt bath beforehand and he is actually way better. His coloration looks way less concerning, he is less inflamed in that area, i believe the swelling/tumors/whatever they are have gone down in size and he seems to be acting sillier than he has been of late (Happier) which is a great sign.

The next step would have been a biopsy on the area and the vet admitted that there's not much that could be done if he does infact have cancer, so we decided to forego that option and if he does worsen will be looking at end of life care for the little bugger.

I just emailed the vet to let her know how well he is doing and to inquire whether they suggest any other treatment.

Couldnt get a good pic of him this morning to post as he is being a cave-dweller - but if you are interested let me know and i can try to post some updated pics of his underside later on today.

Stu

 

[KerfuffleFace]

Update - So.....Not doing well again.

Okay, so after doing the 5 days of salt baths (5G per litre of aquarium salt for 25-30 mins) and 5 days of anti-biotic baths for 3 hours he looked better for 2 days or so. Also got him a small little external fan which got his tank lowered to 64-66 degrees from 70.

Unfortunately he has started developing the same issues again - He has skin like white/translucent/cloudy matter either trailing off of him or covering the bad areas that he looks to be "splitting apart" on his underneath. He is getting black stuff lining these areas which I'm assuming is just dirt build up over time but the area looks very raw. The First picture have uploaded shows some of the white/milky skin or matter that is trailing from his wounds, the next 4 pictures show his underside and some of the matter that came off in his net when i just moved him in for another salt bath and i moved to a glass container. I debated whether all of this stuff coming off of him could be part of him healing, but i have a gut feeling this is not the case.

I will be consulting the vet with an update now, and see if they have any suggestions, but if anyone has seen anything like this, we are really getting worried about his quality of life. He is still eating regularly, and seems fairy active (no weird floating) but he throws up a lot! - i am guessing 2/3 of what i feed him (which is 2-3 pellets every 2 days) - he pooped about 5 days ago give or take.

He has been rubbing himself against plants the last 2 days, and after his most recent salt bath today (after a 3 day break) he went into the tank and stuck himself sideways between his house and a plant so I don't know if the area is painful, itchy, or both but he is not himself.

Thanks for reading

Stu N Chrissy

 

[Binditheaxolotl]

Update - So.....Not doing well again.

Okay, so after doing the 5 days of salt baths (5G per litre of aquarium salt for 25-30 mins) and 5 days of anti-biotic baths for 3 hours he looked better for 2 days or so. Also got him a small little external fan which got his tank lowered to 64-66 degrees from 70.

Unfortunately he has started developing the same issues again - He has skin like white/translucent/cloudy matter either trailing off of him or covering the bad areas that he looks to be "splitting apart" on his underneath. He is getting black stuff lining these areas which I'm assuming is just dirt build up over time but the area looks very raw. The First picture have uploaded shows some of the white/milky skin or matter that is trailing from his wounds, the next 4 pictures show his underside and some of the matter that came off in his net when i just moved him in for another salt bath and i moved to a glass container. I debated whether all of this stuff coming off of him could be part of him healing, but i have a gut feeling this is not the case.

I will be consulting the vet with an update now, and see if they have any suggestions, but if anyone has seen anything like this, we are really getting worried about his quality of life. He is still eating regularly, and seems fairy active (no weird floating) but he throws up a lot! - i am guessing 2/3 of what i feed him (which is 2-3 pellets every 2 days) - he pooped about 5 days ago give or take.

He has been rubbing himself against plants the last 2 days, and after his most recent salt bath today (after a 3 day break) he went into the tank and stuck himself sideways between his house and a plant so I don't know if the area is painful, itchy, or both but he is not himself.

Thanks for reading

Stu N Chrissy

Okay, I would stop the salt baths now, and start doing tea baths. It should soothe him a little bit as that has to hurt. Yes, I would definitely consult a vet now. I’m guessing the white matter coming off him is his slime coat. What are all you’re parameters? What conditioner do u use?

 

[KerfuffleFace]

conditions are all the same at the first post minus the temperature being brought down. I use prime as the conditioner

 

[Calgarycoppers]

Is it a bare bottom tank?

 

[KerfuffleFace]

yes.i had sand in it for a couple of years but ended up taking it out about 6-8 months ago due to a detritus worm issue

 

[Calgarycoppers]

His underside looks like contact issues from irritation or possible parasitic look. Just reminds me of skin I've seen of animals that contracted things from the ground they were on.

 

[KerfuffleFace]

Hello all - The vet is not sure what is going on at this point and has offered a few suggestions. They have suggested i could try another round of the antibiotic (was called vatrol or vitrol, i cant remember), has suggested that the running theory is still possibly neoplasia (tumors/lesions) and has also suggested after reaching out to colleagues that there could be a fungal element. I would not have been so sure initially about the fungal element, but after the first round of medication and his health getting worse again, the amount of (what now looks cottony) substances attached to the injured area is increasing and in my opinion is more than just his slime coat. I have attached an updated picture below. i am hesitant to do the antibiotic treatment again as it didnt work, and only made the situation worse from the looks of things.

I have attached another picture, and I am booked into the vet Monday in person to do "impression cytology" which will diagnose whether the issue as fungal - in the mean time the vets assistant suggested I could either continue salt baths, or start a black tea back regiment. I am hesitant to do another salt bath, as despite them working, he seemed to be in pain after the last one - but if its best for him i will continue - i am also hesitant to do black tea baths as some of what i have read on this forum suggest that if there is a fungal element that black tea baths could make any future medication less effective (as it makes it harder for both fungus and medicine to intrude into the body).

I am not sure if the vet will have any answers monday, and am also worried about his health between now and then, so if anyone has any suggestions at this point - i am really grasping at straws.

Thanks very much

**Edit: its really hard to make out the substance, but its a big mass of translucent to slightly cottony fluff with black specs in it. It occurs to a smaller degree further down the bottom of the tail but as shown the biggest amount is near the cloaca.

 

[KerfuffleFace]

bump

 

[Butterbut the great]

Ya, You have major issues going on.

 

[axie owner]

i have read that it is extremely rare but still possible for an axolotl to get cancer. but that looks more extreme!

 

[Calgarycoppers]

Have they tried metronidazole? fenbendazole?
Ask if they can contact a specialist at 1 of the vet schools, Calgary, Saskatoon, Guelph

There are also experts on VIN they can contact. Your vet SHOULD know what VIN is

 

[KerfuffleFace]

Thanks for the suggestions / comments - will be seeing the vet today at 3:30 and will mention VIN, the vet schools and the treatments you mentioned!

 

[Calgarycoppers]

grasping at straws but hell try it all!!!!

Metro is my biggest recommendation mixed into repashy or liquid given orally

Thanks for the suggestions / comments - will be seeing the vet today at 3:30 and will mention VIN, the vet schools and the treatments you mentioned!