Illness/Sickness: HELP!! Sick axolotl??

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Drizzles

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HELP please!!

I've had these two Axolotls for about two months now, bouught them from the local pet store and they've been fine till about five days ago. The yellow one (male) was on his back and we thought he was dead but he wasn't. I did some research and and found that he probably has Impaction. But the gravel in there is like a little smaller than a coke bottle lid and hes been doing it for days now!

I also didn't realise how bad Nitrates were for them (this part is my fault) ... I did a Nitrate test and found the level was 7 so I cleaned the tank thouroughly and replaced the Axolotls, did another Nitrate test and it was at 2. So i thought it was much better and left it ... (the ammonia level was 0 and the PH was 6.5).

Also at the time the black one (female) was floating. I did some more research and found that she just had gas. She slowly sunk over about 2 and a half days and is looking great again.

That was all 5 days ago. On the day after I went back to the pet store and asked the owner what to do and told her what I'd done and what I'd found out. She said to put two Tbsp of Aquarium Salt in there and some Melafix. I put the Salt in on the day, and the Melafix in two days later. (Sorry I just realised I havent mentioned that the YELLOW Axolotls gills were a muddy brown before). Now its five days since the Yellow Axolotl has been on his back on and off and the salt has been in the water for four and the Melafix for two. The brown on his gills has gone and hes more yellow than ever but hes still on his back and the tips of his toes seem to be black??????

What is going on??? Please help! I love these things! lol ...

This photo is from today ... I'll put it in a ZIP file because it was taken with a high quality camera (even thought they're not that good).

BTW, I have two filters, a Medium Corner Air Filter which has filter wool, Activated Carbon, Ammonia Remover and Gravel Substrate in it. And a wall power filter (small) with the same stuff.

Please someone help.
 

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Firstly the gravel you have in your too tank is too small and could be swallowed by your axolotls causing serious problems.

What kind of testing kit are you using? I haven't seen one that shows nitrate as 7 or 2. Nitrate is the end result of the cycling process and if kept under control isn't as dangerous for your axies as nitrites or ammonia. What is the temperature of your tank? When you say you cleaned out your tank, do you mean scrubbed all the surfaces? This is where the good bacteria lives that helps keep ammonia under control.

It's not always a good idea to get advice from pet shops, at best their intentions are good, but many are just out for a fast buck. Many give advice more suited to fish than axolotls, Melafix is not suitable for axolotls. I don't really see what good the salt will do either.

In my opinion I would get the axies out the tank and place then separately in containers of dechlorinated water and keep them cool, with fresh water changes daily while you sort out their tank. If it's cool where you are right now then they will be OK in a bucket or similar, if not put them in containers in the fridge for a little holiday while everything gets sorted. (Fridging process.....http://www.caudata.org/axolotl-sanctuary/Fridging.shtml)

The black finger tips on your golden axolotl is probably nothing more than a sign of maturity, light coloured axolotls show dark toe tips, dark axolotls light toe tips. The brown colour on the gills could be the blood running through his gills making the yellow colour look brown, this is also normal.

You say you have two filters? Do either of these have a strong water flow? axolotls like the water cool and calm.
 
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wow really?? its that big and its still to small?? it shows the nitrate levels in increments of 5 and I just estimated lol ... its a Nitrate NO3 test kit by API ... the room is permanently 16 degrees airconditioned ... and well the melafix must be doin something good cuz his gills are no longer brown ... oh also i didn't mention that his nose/mouth whatever it is is permanently open since hes been having trouble ... I think it shows that in the photo ...
 
Also I feed them a variety of Blood Worms, Brine Shrimp and Earthworms I think they are ...
 
Well, the diet sounds good! ;)

I know I have read here that a slightly open mouth can be a sign of a bacterial disease in the mouth. This disease can be fatal, transferrable to the other axie, but also treatable by a vet. I think I've got that right.

If you do a forum search for 'open mouth', 'bacterial infection', 'swollen mouth' etc. you may come up with some advice from one of our vets that visit here at caudata that may help.

Good luck.
 
I can't find much about it .... but alot of the other infection threads advice to take them to the Vet ... I live in a Rural area ... both the Vets here don't have the equipment, one specializes in Livestock, horses etc, the other specializes in Dogs, Cats etc ... we don't have any Aquatic vets here ... but there should be something I can do for him surely??
 
If it's impaction, the best treatment is good water quality and keeping him cool.
If it's an infection of the mouth then I'm afraid only a vet giving appropriate medication at the earliest opportunity will be the answer. (Along with the good water quality and keeping him cool in the meantime)
There is a list here somewhere of vets that deal with exotics in Australia.
Other than that, sorry I can't help you more.
 
How often do the Vets visit this forum?? I notice there are a couple ...
 
Hi Drizzles

Darkmaverick if you click on this link it will take you Raysons profile and you can semd hima private message or email form there. But he normally checks in every day or two. He is an Australian vet so may be able to advise you of the closet suitable vet.

Good Luck
 
Thanks all!!!! I'll PM him ...

Also if yous ever need any help with computers or IT equipment ... PM me!! I'm a computer techie by trade ;) :proud:

Thanks again!!

Still any comments are helpful! :D
 
Hi Drizzles,

Kerry already gave you very sound advice. I would fridge the axie for 3 weeks minimum and monitor on a daily basis (since it requires 100% daily water changes). Follow the instructions on the fridging link. The next benefit of fridging is the isolation of each axie and hence prevent transimission of any infectious diseases, particularly since you were concerned about infectious stomatitis.

Here is a list of herp vets in australia who can deal with axies.

http://www.caudata.org/axolotl-sanctuary/vets.shtml

Would you be able to take a few photos of a close up of the mouth area? Also can you take some photos of the top view and side view of the entire axie? Have you noticed any sores or blisters around the face region? How is the appetite? When it feeds, does the food fall out from the mouth? Any other unsual growth, discolouration, discharge anywhere on the body? Any unusual behaviour?

Cheers.
 
Well as I said earlier I put some Melafix in the water so the discolouration on the gills is gone now, but previously his gills were a muddy brown.

Other than that, no discolouration other than that that was already there when I bought him ... no other unusual growths or discharge ... usually hell be on his stomach but he rarely moves and sometimes goes on his side and his back. There haven't been any sores and he hasn't eaten since hes been sick ... hes starting to look skinny now to so I'm gonna fridge him ASAP. I'll try take them photos soon ... none of those Vets are anywhere near me ... is there some way I can get what you would administer and do it myself??
 
Hi Drizzles,

Unfortunately, prophylactic antibiotics can only be prescribed by a vet. You would not be able to get them from the pharmacy or chemist without a script. Furthermore they are administered via an injection into their abdominal space and hence requires some skill and knowledge or it can cause injury. Without an official vet-client relationship, vets can't prescribe medication without physically examining the animals.

The only thing i can think of which can help palliate the condition is by application of calcium gluconate. You can do this yourself as this is administered directly on the skin. The axie skin will absorb some of it. Calcium gluconate can help supplement some energy source and calcium but is not a cure. It merely helps support the axie, especially if it has poor body condition and is getting emaciated. Calcium gluconate can be obtained from some chemists and from vets (particularly practices dealing with production animals - dairy cattle etc.). You do not need a large quantity and is relatively cheap. You will need to consult with a vet to get a prescription for this.

Once you managed to purchase some, private message me. I will take a look at the concentration etc. and work out a treatment plan and instruction to cater to your axie.

Cheers.
 
So will anything else help his infection?? It says on the Melafix bottle it cures Bacterial Infections ... it removed the one from his gills and its helped my Oscars with numerous infections and recently helped my Barras fins redevelop. Could the Melafix eventually remove the infection??
 
Hi Drizzles,

I don't recommend Melafix. Firstly, we don't really know if the axie has a bacterial infection and even if it does have an infection, what is the causative bacterial agent. This is important because different bacteria have different susceptibility to antibiotics. Choosing the right antibiotic to specifically target the causative bacteria is important. This would ensure that all the bacteria can be killed off, that minimal side effects are caused and that the bacteria do not gain resistance.

I still highly recommend you consult a vet, even one not specialised in axies. They can still perform diagnostic testing to determine the type of infection (obtain swabs etc to culture bacteria). From there, we can then work out the best treatment strategy that is effective and safe.

In addition, for many axie bacterial infections, the bacteria is not localised and limited to the external skin. The bloodstream, the internal organs and inner tissue surfaces like within the mouth can harbour the bacteria. As such only antibiotics delivered straight into their body via injections or in some cases orally, can an accurate dosage of medication be delivered. Chemicals added to the water are usually not able to meet the therapeutic level effective enough to rid the bacteria while remaining safe enough for the axie. Axies are not fish and hence have different physiology and response to chemicals like melafix. Their skin in particular is very sensitive compared to fish.

Another possiblility is that your axie might have internal parasites or carriers of certain bacteria types. A vet would be able to check if this is the case.

Cheers.
 
Ok well I'll ring the Vet on Monday and see what he can do ... and I'll go to the other Vet and get the Calcium Gluconate ... he should give it to me without to much question as I've been dealing with him for fifteen years without hiccup.
 
I just realised I said mMnday ... I meant Tuesday, Monday being a public holiday ...
 
Ok new developments ... today I was sitting at my computer looking at my little Axies (I moved the yellow one to the fridge about 5 ago ...) and the yellow one wandered over to the side of the tank, stared at me and gave me a big yawn ... his mouth is still 3-4mm open and his left gill set seems to be shrinking... any thoughts??
 
Hi Drizzles,

I am confused by your last post. You mentioned you fridged your ill yellow axie 5 days ago. Did you move it back to the main tank? How was it able to swim to the side of the tank otherwise while you were watching? Just to clarify, the yellow axie has a slightly agape mouth of 3-4mm with receding left gill only? Could you please take some new photos showing the mouth and gill area and put them up here. It is very difficult for anyone to comment otherwise.

Cheers
 
Did I???? sorry ... I had no knowledge of fridging procedures until yesterday and only moved him to the fridge today. As far as the mouth and the gills ... yes you are correct.

I'll try to take some photos soon ...
 
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