Help with spotted sals....

[tjsmom]

Hi, I am not sure anyone can help! I have 5 spotted sals in a 20 gal tank. Everyone has always been helathy. They just morphed this year. When I uncovered them tonight to feed one was odd. His/her tail was bent very odd but when i moved it moved it back. The hind legs are moving but in a strange fashion. The front legs are moving also. It has a strange little lump on its right side kinda right where the middle is. It won't walk I got it out on a wet paper towel and it tried to go but couldn't. It is about 5 inches long and the chuckest of them all. I did find some odd skin hanging there. I feed crickets, worms, waxworms. They usually eat well. It did not eat tonight. I did look at its belly but all looks fine there. I am kinda attached to these things I never really see. Thanks for ANY help. I

 

[cindy]

What kind of substrate are they in?

 

[matt]

well im not sure but it sounds like its tail or leg bone is broken take him/her to a vet they would know how to treat it

 

[tjsmom]

The substrate is a layer of sand then I have top soil/peat moss mix. Then I have chucks of bark and leaves with rocks and things to hide under. It is soft they like to bury under. I have alot of low growing plants to crawl around also. I very rarely see them as i am in bed around 11 and I guess them come out much later. Where do I find a vet for a salamander? He/her legs move and they seem bent correctly. Maybe, do they have ribs. Could that have happened. We really don't handle them. It jsut seems to not be able to move forward.

 

[tjsmom125]

I found a vet in my area, and it is being seen tomorrow (fri). Thanks for any info. I guess it is not really strange to take a salamander to a vet. Thanks a bunch. This site has always been a great help.

 

[matt]

tell us what the vet does ok

 

[tjsmom]

well, i took my little sal to the vet and they were very excited to see a sal as nice as him. I guess she said they don't usually get them so nice. Anyway, they really weren't sure. So they (at thier own expense) did some x-rays and an ultrasound.They office kept him for 3 days. He was filled with gas. She soaked him in a mineral bath and fed him. He started to do really well but then he went down hill. She felt that he was to far along to help and they put him to sleep. We discussed his food and his surroundings and she seemed fine with everything. She did say that some just don't do well in captivity and need to have a bacteria balance in thier system. Sometimes in captivity this doesn't occur and it causes poor digestion. So that is how it was left. Thanks for asking. Thanks for all your help and I still have the other four. The vet wants me to watch them close and let her know of any changes. The good news is. They all seem fine.

 

[kai]

If you want to continue to use peat moss (doesn't make much sense and is environmentally questionable at best) make sure that the pH doesn't get acid - e.g. add powdered limestone to the mix.

Best wishes,
kai

 

[tjsmom]

I am using stuff called canadian sphagnum. It is soft and then I have a thin layer of the coconut bark. Also soft and the once in awhile (when i see them) they are buried in the stuff. It helps to keep my tank moist. I do try to feed them well. I hunt them up to feed them and then I get a good look. I place the food a little from where they are at. So I can check to see if everyone is moving and looking OK. I really would like this to go well. So I continue to look for guided info. Thanks so far!!

 

[kai]

Commercially available Sphagnum is very acid - get rid of it, completely!

A must read:
http://www.caudata.org/caudatecentral/editor/amby1.html
http://www.caudata.org/caudatecentral/editor/amby2.html

I'd suggest to switch to the plastic box method and use your tank for keeping non-burrowing critters - cp.:
http://www.caudata.org/caudatecentral/caresheets/Ambystoma_tigrinum.html

Best wishes,
kai

 

[tjsmom]

Kai, I have read the pages you have mentioned. I give horseback riding lessons for a living and I would never discourage me kids as mush as this writer does. Those who are just discovering do need lead, in a postive way. Although his writings are shallow and misleading he does not offer any real info about how to go about keeping and raising your salamanders. He is however quick to judge those of us who are trying to do it and want to do this well. Thanks for your info and I am heading out to get just top soil? I am hoping that is what you meant. I know digging my own soil is not the best.

 

[john]

I think you should have probably read the caresheet first and then read nimbus2's editorials. The editorials on Caudate Central are deliberately hard-hitting. The reason they have been written is because the contributors to Caudate Central have identified several issues that people don't seem to be aware of, or there is misinformation out there that needs to be dealt with vigorously. Each editorial has provision for rebuttal.

I don't think you'll find a single experienced enthusiast or expert who would disagree with nimbus2's articles.

We see all kinds of questions on kingsnake.com's newt forum (and a little here too) about how people keep their tigers and other Ambystomatids, and it's just a shame that these people really don't know what they're doing. I feel quite sorry for those salamanders. That's why I think it's great that someone put their very informed opinion on the record in this way.

Good luck with your salamander

.

 

[nate]

Hi tjsmom,

The editorials in question were not intended to be editorials, but were posts written by me in response to a debate on the kingsnake.com forum on the proper care of Ambystomids. When read on their own without the proper background posts, they are out of context and very negative, I agree.

The first "editorial" was intended to scold those people (and only those people) who were keeping their tigers aquatic or semi-aquatic. The animals were frequently ill/dying, and they would not entertain the notion that the care might be incorrect or even bother to crack a field guide open. In my opinion, they were showing a complete lack of understanding of the basic ecology of Ambystomids, as well as a complete lack of interest to learn.

My second "editorial" was a challenge to all people who thought they were taking great care of their Ambystomid. If the care is so great, why no breeding? Why not even accidental breeding? It was an attempt to get people to rethink how these animals are kept and to "raise the bar" as to the captive care of Ambystomids.

Neither was intended to be a care sheet, and neither was intended to be read on its own. I am interested to know though...what did you find misleading about either of them?

 

[jennifer]

Tjsmom - yes, get the plainest top soil you can get. Do not get potting mix. The soil from your yard would probably be OK if it has no lawn chemicals used on it. Leaves from outside are OK to use, just avoid oak, which is acidic. Also, moisten the soil only at one end of the tank so you get a moisture gradient, and the sals can choose how damp they want to be.

 

[tjsmom]

Hi Nate, It is nice to see an address to an issue openly. I do feel that what you have written will discourage alot of people who are trying to keep sals and newts. The reason I feel that the articles are misleading is that, after reading them I felt that I should release my guys because any attempt I make will not work out. When I started with my sals. I had eggs I found. I thought they were tadpoles. Anyway, it was hard for me to come up with solid info. I looked on the computer for days. I stuck to it. That is my nature. Somepeople are well meaning but if it is not easy to find they go on their own. Not bad people. Now that I have my guys and am getting more info daily. I would never give them up. I don't think that people mean to hurt or care wrongly. It is the same in any animal situation. I see horses being cared for wrong ALOT!!!!! I try to gently lead or encourage. Most, Most people don't want to fail. Making them feel that they will anyway is misleading I think. Anyway, Thanks for responding and I will go back and reread the writings. Again, any info that is offered I could certainly use. I hope there is no hard feelings. I really like this place will continue to read here in the future. I do have a question for you mentioned kingsnake.com. A friend gave my son two jr. bullfrogs. I had a heck of a time finding good info on bullfrogs specfic. If you or anyone else has any good places to look please let me know. Agian. We really like these guys and my friend meant well. Please feel free to e-mail me also.

 

[tjsmom]

jennewt, thanks I will buy the top soil. We do spray our yard every spring. I would hate to take that chance. Currently I do spray the whole tank but I will try the spraying half. I am surprised at how big they are getting. I am thinking I might have to make two tanks soon.