HELPHELPHELP!!!!! My toads laid eggs!!!!

[mary]

I was just feeding my FBTs, when I looked in the water and saw EGGS!!! They're little half brown/half cream colored eggs with clear "cells" around them. They're all over this one plant and in a couple of other places, too.

What do I do now? Should I move them out of the tank? Won't the big frogs eat the eggs, or the tadpoles? What should I put them in? All I have is a medium sized Lee's Kritter Keeper...but I don't think that's big enough. Should I buy a tank? I know I need to...but how soon do I need it? I'm thinking right away, but I don't know. How big a tank should I get? My nearby pet store has a 20 gal. long that I can afford...would that be good? Could I raise the little toadlets in that?

How soon with they hatch? What should I feed them when they do? What do they need? How should I set up their tank? How much land? How deep of water? What sort of filtration? Any gravel? Lots of plants and rocks, right? What kind of light? When do they start going up on land?

What should I feed them? How fast do they grow? How do I know when they're big enough to eat new food-stuffs? Does their tank need to be heated? What temperature should they be kept at? Warmer then usual? Cooler? My tank now hangs between 68 degrees F. and 71 degrees F. I know this is a little cool, but the pet store said it was okay for the ones I've got. I trusted them, because I figured that if they weren't trying to sell me a heater then it must really be okay. But the babies...they might need warmer. What temp should they be at?

And what about the mom? She is understandably thin and tired...I feel like she needs something special to help her get back on top. What should I do for her? Plus, the dad doesn't want to leave her alone. As I said, I don't have any other tank to put him in...is there anything I can do so that she can have a break and recover?

I'd really appreciate any and all help. Comments, information, resources, recommendations, e-mails, and any and all help is VERY welcome. Thank you!

 

[william]

wow lots of questions!

i can't answer all of them but i can tell you that it might be best for you to take out the eggs, i would get the 20G tank if you can it will come in handy, you do not need to keep them any warmer, it looks like they have got more eggs to lay yet, so leave the adults as they are, the eggs should be placed in the tank with lots o water plants and hiding places for them when they hatch, gravel is not important but a bare bottom is better for cleaning. they shouldn't need any land areas until they start to grow back legs, then a piece of floating cork bark would be fine, or alternatively you could make a mound of gravel which breaks the surface, so they can climb onto that. you'll have to ask someone with experience with bombina to answer all your other questions, i can only point you to these links:
http://www.livingunderworld.org/anura/database/bombinatoridae/bombina/

http://www.pollywog.co.uk/orientalfbtcaresheet.html

hope i've been of some help

 

[mary]

Thanks for your help! I do have a lot of questions. I wasn't expecting eggs.

For now, I'll need to put the eggs into the kritter keeper until I can get the tank. It should only be temporary.

By the way, any suggestions on how to move the eggs? Should I use a little cup, or a net, or a turkey baster? I have all three....should I move the whole plant that most of them are on? Will that bug the mom? How do I go about moving it without hurting the eggs?

Thanks again!

 

[william]

you can just lift the whole plant carefully out of the water and place it carefully back into the new tank a turkey baster would be fine. the mother will not care, i don't know about bombina, but other species of amphibians will eat the eggs. you might need some aireation, but again that will be address by the experts, i hope, you don't want to create any strong currents.

(Message edited by will_j on April 22, 2005)

 

[mary]

I'll set up the little keeper for now, until I can get the bigger tank. I think I'll use one of those little marker-cap size bubblers, (inch long, half inch wide, tube shaped). I may just use it a little at a time, to move the water a tiny bit. Thanks again for the info you've been able to give me. I appreciate it.

I, too, hope the experts will come along soon, to answer all of those many, many, many, MANY question for me. Thanks again, will_j !

 

[han]

Within a few days, the eggs will develop into tiny comma-like larvae feeding on their egg-sack: they'll stick to plants and screen, spastic movements every now and then. They don't need any extra food. Depending on temperature it'll take some days to become free-swimming tadpoles.They do need food now: animal and vegetable - dried/frozen bloodworm, blackworm, tubifex, daphnia, spirulina, crushed lettuce, yeastflakes etc. Because they need a thorough cleaning every day, it's easier to use several small containers. Waterpollution is a real threat to the tadpoles, avoid overpopulation and overfeeding ,keep cool. A cool and therefore slow development of the tadpoles make bigger and stronger toadlets.

Han.

 

[mary]

Thanks, Han!

They're in that comma stage now. It's their third day...is it too warm? Are they developing too fast? What temperatures are good?

How crowded is over-crowded? I've got a medium-sized kritter keeper that the eggs are all in right now. It'll be too small for them all when they hatch...but you also said multiple small containers was best. How should I go about that? How small of a container is too small? How many should be in there? Beta cups are too small, aren't they? I've got about a zillion empty betta cups that I use when I clean the betta's tanks....would they be of any use?

What sort of lighting do they need? Anything special? I'm using a small, low-wattage, reptile/amphibian light. It was labeled as a "daytime light". Is that good?

When they start eating...are the foods you listed the only ones? I really am clueless, so any and all help is VERY welcome. How should their diet change as they grow?

Thanks again for all your help!

 

[benjamin]

It doesn't really matter how fast they develop in the eggs, only once they start eating. I would also recommend not to use a turkey baster or siphon to transport or clean the tanks of tadpoles, because it can kill them if they get sucked in. A net or a cup is best. Also don't put them in a tank with gravel, bare bottoms are the best. I've found that little bits of food fall between the gravle and algae sometimes grows there. The tadpoles will go down into the gravle to feed and get stuck.

 

[mary]

Thanks for the tips, Ben. It's their third day, and they're starting to look very much like little tadpoles, except that they look like vague clay tadpoles. I'm using a no gravel tank right now. I'll be sure to use a cup to move them around - that way they won't get hurt and they'll never be out of the water.

Thanks again!

 

[joshua]

It might be a good idea to figure out how you're going to feed the babies and what you're going to do with them. You'll proboboly want fruit flies or pinhead crickets for them to eat once they turn into frogs.

 

[mary]

I think I can get some flightless fruit flies...but I don't know where to get anything else. The only pet stores anywhere near me are petco and petsmart. I can't order online, either, because I have no credit card, no debit card, no checking or savings accounts. This is a problem....does anyone have any suggestions?

 

[joshua]

You can use money orders to pay for stuff to many dealers. Or give someone the money to put in their account and order for you.

Here's some places I've dealt with in the past
http://www.bigappleherp.com/
http://www.flyculture.com/
http://www.herpfood.com/

Here's some additional places you can order from
http://www.americancricketranch.com/
http://www.drosophila.us/
http://www.edsflymeatinc.com/
http://fruitflies.net/

You'll probobly want D. hydei since they are a bit bigger. YOu'll also want to get them and get cultures going soon if you don't want to run out of food.

 

[mary]

Thanks, Josh! I'll check out those sites.

 

[mary]

Does anyone know what I can keep these guys in without overcrowding them, but still small enough to clean out easily? As per what Han said, I want to keep them in several small containers so I can clean them out every day. I imagine they wouldn't compete for food as much that way, too. Any ideas? I mentioned betta cups before...what if I kept 2-3 tadpoles in each cup. (while they're very small, anyway.)

Does anyone know, perhaps, where I could get several kitter keepers for very low prices? (my budget is limited)

 

[joshua]

You can get rubbermaids pretty cheap out walmart to keep them in.

 

[han]

Breeding Bombina orientalis these days isn't very profitable.They need a lot of care, labour and money, before they're big and attractive enough to sell. You probably will not even get the money back that you invested. Nevertheless, it's real fun and very instructive to raise some, it's very much worth the money, anyway.Keep it small, would be my advise.
As said, small (plastic) containers are cheap, easy to pick up and clean: 10-5-6 inches (L-W-H)
will do nicely:10 to 15 tadpoles in each container.Hygienic set up, just water and tadpoles.No extra light required when placed near a window (no direct sun!). Try to keep cool, some 65F. Change the water every day and clean the tank with only water and a brush: take the tadpoles out by pouring the water through a small fishing-net and put them (still in the net) in some water when cleaning the tank.
Food is a fast polluter: look carefully how much they can eat within some 2 hours, no food should be left in the water.So, do not overfeed.
Until the metamorphosis, the varied diet doesn't change:
vegetable (spirulina, crushed lettuce) and animal (dried/frozen blood-worm, tubifex, black-worm, daphnia),sold by tropical fish-shops.
It'll take some 10 to 14 days before the hind-legs will start to pop out and another 3 or 4 days before the front-legs are out. The metamorphosis is not yet completed: there is still a tail. Time to stop feeding, the tail is their food-source now, until it's gone completely.
Once the front-legs are out they need a spot to climb out of the water.
Once they're out of the water, you'll need another set-up, more light, other food.
It would be a good idea to start at least some drosophila-cultures right now and look for a
shop where they sell live-food like tubifex, musquito-larvae etc.

Han.

 

[mary]

It's okay by me that it isn't profitable. I didn't really expect my toads to lay eggs, and now that they have I just want to take good care of the babies.

And thanks for all of your help.

I can get some more containers, and set them up as you described. I'm working with just two containers that I already had, with the as-yet unhatched eggs in one and the hatched tadpoles in the other. But, when I try to clean the tank, I pour the water and the tads into a brine shrimp net and everything is fine. But when I put the tads back into their nice clean tub, all of the ick from the old water that was stuck in the net comes too. How do I fix this?

Also, I'm feeding the hatched ones on freeze dried bloodworms and crushed tropical fish food until I can get to the store. (They just started hatching this morning). I put in a little food, and keep an eye on it, but they're not eating. I'm a bit worried, because some of them are just floating vertically, but most of them just lay in the bottom of the tank and don't move. Is there something wrong? Why aren't they eating? Why aren't they moving?

 

[benjamin]

it's probably too early for them to eat just yet. Most amphibians take a good few days or even more than a week before they start eating.

 

[mary]

As long as they're okay. I'm worried about the little guys.

BTW - the grocery store and the health food store both told me they don't have spirulina. Anybody know where I can get some? Can I get daphnia online, too? (I live in dry climate, so can't catch my own...and there don't seem to be any real pet stores around here.

)

 

[joshua]

You should be able to get spirulina at your local GNC.

If you don't want to take a big hit on costs with them raising of the tads you can sell them as tads, I'm sure there are a lot of people who would like some firebellied toad tads.