Inbreeding Neuregus Strauchii

[KrisztianNemeth]

I have read several times now that the limited bloodline available for Neuregus Strauchii means that in breeding has started to occur in large numbers. I want to buy a group of 4 juveniles but want to know how hard are they to source in the UK and are there enough bloodlines to make it worth while breeding them?

 

[Jennewt]

I have no idea how hard they are to source in the UK. I would say that it may be worth breeding them, even if they are inbred. My animals are inbred, but they still produce healthy offspring. There always seems to be a demand for this species because they are very pretty and not available wild-caught.

 

[Azhael]

There seem to be at most a handful of bloodlines (maybe less) in europe but i doubt any of them has gone through a significant number of generations so inbreeding is unlikely to be having an impact.
I have no idea if you can track different bloodline in the UK, but it is possible to do so at a european level (i know someone who has). It´s extra work, but i think it´s something that should always be encouraged.

 

[Chinadog]

You could try dartfrog.co.uk, they sell their own captive bred juvaniles.

 

[sergé]

There is no proof of inbreeding in any Neurergus so far. We have even shown it in our paper that the long line has not resulted in inbreeding. redlist.arc.org - Neurergus Newts
http://www.redlist-arc.org/Article-PDFs/ARC_6(4)_9-29_e53_high_res.pdf

Jen's breedings are the proof! If there are bad results of breeding it is much more likely due to malnutrition, wrong keeping or diseases and vice versa. Don't believe the gossip, check the facts .

 

[mr cyclone]

China dog dartfrog doesnt breed 99% of its stock it is full of it!

 

[Chinadog]

Sorry, sometimes i take stuff on face value! i was only suggesting they might have info on UK bloodlines. I am not in any way connected to dartfrog, i was just repeating what it says on their website.

 

[froggy]

Not that I would recommend or not recommend dartfrog specifically, but to be fair they only claim to breed 14 out 60 species offered on the site, and most of these are dendrobatids.

Amphibians seem to be very resilient to captive breeding, at least in terms of gross phenotype. Some research has shown inbreeding depression in very small, isolated populations of wild amphibians (e.g. Trevor Beebee's work on Natterjacks in the UK) and a possible case related to loss of predator recognition/avoidance in Alytes muletensis, although this could be due to to adaptation to captivity (or both).

In terms of maintaining healthy captive populations, it would be ideal to avoid extensive inbreeding (particularly continuous breeding over generations of sibling groups), but on the other hand it would be foolish to allow populations to die out rather than breed them. It is potentially beneficial to maintain 'closed' lines with only occasional outbreeding with other lines. Otherwise, with too much crossing one can end up with just one, inbred population with each individual related to all the others.

C

 

[KrisztianNemeth]

The neuregus at dart frog are bred by Marc

 

[Azhael]

In terms of maintaining healthy captive populations, it would be ideal to avoid extensive inbreeding (particularly continuous breeding over generations of sibling groups), but on the other hand it would be foolish to allow populations to die out rather than breed them. It is potentially beneficial to maintain 'closed' lines with only occasional outbreeding with other lines. Otherwise, with too much crossing one can end up with just one, inbred population with each individual related to all the others.

C

This is very true, it could happen, unless of course the gene pool of that single population is diverse enough.
These questions are very complicated and unfortunately rarely addressed. There have been discussions about this and related topics before but they never seem to go beyond acknowledging the problems. The next step which is trying to come up with ways to address them, fails to happen, and it´s no surprise, it´s not easy...at all...

 

[manderkeeper]

I don't think inbreeding in captive amphibians will be much of an issue. For one thing, we are controlling so many factors that they have to deal with in nature that a slight fitness restraint or loss of adaptability won't make much of a difference. Secondly, if there is a a trait that causes infertility or some other devastating factor, that small percent of whatever remains will not last long in the gene pool (however narrow) and will be weeded out.