Inter-male aggression in adult orientalis...

[christina]

My friend with an adult male C. orientalis asked me recently whether there are big territorial problems with male CFBNs. Not sure what to answer, as I find these guys to be pretty mellow, but I've never housed males together as I've always erred on the safe side.

Any comments?

 

[al]

I have found the Cynops species do not display aggressive traits in captivity (among males). There may be some sexual interference during breeding when one male is trying to get a female's attention. The problem with C. orientalis sp. in the pet trade, is they label everything as "firebelly newts" and they could be an entirely different species. She may have a warty newt sp. or Pachytriton sp. These two species show territorial/aggressive behavior. If she can send you a picture to post, this may shed light on why they are acting this way.

 

[christina]

Sorry, I wasn't clear. She has one male (which is a C. orientalis for certain), and wanted to know whether males could be housed together successfully.

 

[al]

Yes. If they are cynops sp. they will be fine.

 

[paris]

and if they have any problems, just dump a few birth control pills in the water-the estrogen surge ought to change their moods........

 

[TJ]

There can be some occasional nipping, but as far as I know it's a unisex thing, unrelated to gender, and usually occurs during the scramble for food.

 

[paris]

yeah, just feed them a lot and they will be too fat and lazy to fight.

 

[christina]

Heh heh, I'd rather avoid obese newts Thanks for the comments!

 

[TJ]

Paris, that's not really the case with Cynops pyrrhogaster in my experience. Mine are extremely well-fed -- but come mealtime, it's everyone for himself/herself. One doesn't observe this degree of frenzied biting at mealtimes with Cynops ensicauda, for instance. Just the smell of the bloodworm in the water sets them off

 

[paris]

well shes got orientalis-and my fat cats are really well behaved (3 in a heavily planted aquatic set up -15G tank). i wish my pyrro's ate so eagerly! on the occasions when i bother to give them blood worms-they dont eat them all-i have to siphon out the fuzzy bits after a few days..

.

 

[joseph]

Interesting Tim. So are you saying C. ensicauda in captivity seems to have less of a feeding response compared to C. phyrrogaster? Wonder if their is a way to train them to not be so mad when food comes along. In both species I keep(orientalis and karelinii) adding in food or pretending to makes them go crazy. In the case of the karelinii if one newt makes a sudden movement everyone rushes over. Usually they grab toes or a tail more often than a worm. The orientalis will start pacing and snapping at things if I just raise or tap the lid.

 

[TJ]

Hiya Paris. I wonder if your newts lack of enthusiasm for bloodworm has to do with the quality of bloodworm you provide them. Here in Japan, the cheapy type is visibly different from the top quality type. Put the cheapy type in a glass of water next to one with the top quality type, and you'll notice that the individual worms are twice as thick, and in better condition overall. The cheapy type tends to float while the expensive type sinks (after melting). The cheapy type also reddens the water, as it if contains artificial coloring even. Plus, the expensive type contains various added nutrients and has gone through three stages of sterilization. The trick is to find the expensive type at a cheap price, and this I have accomplished by buying it from a place that sells it at almost no profit as a means of luring customers to the shop, where they inevitably end up buying other things that yield profit. Perhaps I should do a picture-packed comparison article for CC?....

My pocket camera takes digital video, so I'll try to upload some footage of feeding time for your entertainment

Joseph, well, everything's relative, right? And so I'd have to say that the C. ensicauda response is far from unenthusiastic, though it's not nearly as frenzied as with C. pyrrhogaster. And it's not only me, this has also been pointed out to me recently by Japan's top authority on Cynops pyrrhogaster. Nice to hear your observations on C. orientalis. I'm just about to get more into this species...

My pyrrhogaster are fed bloodworm on average once every two days, though often daily. Too bad they don't show as much interest in the salmon pellets that Jen and Michael have championed. Maybe it's an acquired taste...

(Message edited by TJ on March 18, 2006)

 

[TJ]

Yeah, I really, really do think if anybody's C. pyrrhogaster doesn't seem to like bloodworm, there's a problem with your bloodworm

 

[ian]

wow... you fed a lot of bloodworm to a lot of newts. What a sight! And I think those are healthy bloodworm. Are the bloodworms live?

BTW, my CO morphs bit crazily at each other as well. Sometime I worry about their aggressiveness.

PS. actually now I see they are frozen bloodworms. Do live bloodworm available in Japan? just curious.

(Message edited by achiinto on March 18, 2006)

 

[paris]

do you feed them that much every day???

 

[TJ]

Ian, yes, my C. orientalis are like that too

Live bloodworm is available here at bait shops. I used to use occasionally it for my Paramesotriton caudopunctatus, for example. But as with any live food, there is a risk of introducing diseases and parasites into the tank, so I rarely use it, That's because I have a suitable alternative. Still, I do use tubifex worms for larvae.

Paris, I devote a large chunk of my month personal allowance to newt/salamander food (bloodworm, waxworm, crickets), and so they are a bit spoiled. That there's one strip of frozen bloodworm, or 24 chunks ($2 at wholesale price). That goes pretty fast, especially when you consider that a single newt can eat a whole chunk, and there are many more than 24 newts in there (locality-known C. pyrrhogaster from about 7 regions in that tank). They get at least 1 sheet every 2 days, and usually 2 sheets every 3.

 

[ian]

now, talking about live food and disease.. I am worried if I should use earthworm for this coming summer or not. I wonder how I can make sure there is not bad bacteria...

 

[paris]

tim, at that rate of consumption i am amazed they dont look more like 4 legged sausages! since i have started using the ranagen soft pellet food, most my cynops have taken to it well and eat it about as eagerly as blood worms -the only picky ones in my group are my hiroshima JFB's

 

[TJ]

Hi Ian. Well, life being full of risks, I'd say go ahead and do it if you're confident the earthworms come from a clean source (not that I know anything about earthworms and their sources...). I've just been influenced by the experience of somebody I now whose substantial collection was wiped out (well, almost) by a bad batch of live bloodworm (or at least that's what I recall it as having been).

Paris, yes, I'm sure they could get by on less, though what amounts to about half a cube per newt every two days doesn't seem to me excessive. I tend to feed them more than I normally wuuld because of the way they flock to the front glass during my daily feeding rounds

I have been neglecting to feed them those salmon pellets, which they will eat (though not with the same level of excitement). Will feed them some of those tonight, in fact!