Michigan Herping

Neotenic_Jaymes

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Very recently me and JessKB went out herping. We had a blast and even though we both wasn't sure we'd wouldn't find anything. Going to new spots is always a adventure. After being there for just a moment I found some Blue Spotted Salamanders and some hybrid Ambystoma Salamanders. JessKB found adult N.v.viridescens. He found adults and larvae. There were so many Notophthalmus larvae I couldn't believe it. I'm almost sure some of the larvae were N.v.louisianensis. We also came across Plethodon cinereus and lead phase ones.
 

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Molch

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awesome. Blue spotteds? OOOiiii....cool. How do you know the Ambystoma were hybrids, and of which species?
One fine day I'd love to go herping with some of you folks :). Even at the great danger of running into a dead body or a blow-up sex doll.
 
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ozzytrott

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nice! I like the picture of the one crawling on the fungi. looks like turkey tail.. I went to Michigan once. didn't get to do any herping though..
 

Neotenic_Jaymes

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awesome. Blue spotteds? OOOiiii....cool. How do you know the Ambystoma were hybrids, and of which species?
One fine day I'd love to go herping with some of you folks :). Even at the great danger of running into a dead body or a blow-up sex doll.

Well there are plenty of hybrid Blue Spotted localities around here. I'm sure they were hybrids. Not to mention that Blue Spotted Salamanders aren't suppose to have white spots! I can't say exactly which kind of hybrids they were since there is like 3-4 variations of the triploid hybrids. Ambystoma laterale are diploids. They hybrids are stemmed from Ambystoma laterale breeding with other salamanders in the Ambystoma genus.

Molch it'll fun to herp with you someday! Maybe we should summon a gathering and see who wants to go? But your in charge!
 

FrogEyes

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There are potentially around 30 hybrid combinations, based ONLY on species known to be involved. Some of those kleptogens show up far from where one or more parent species are known to occur. Hybrids [actually kleptogens] may be diploid, triploid, tetraploid, and even pentaploid or more! Five species and so many possible ploidy levels is the reason for the high number of possible combinations. The vast majority of this variety is concentrated in Ohio, though there's no reason it wouldn't occur elsewhere. A.tigrinum, A.laterale, A.texanum, A.jeffersonianum, and A.barbouri are known to be involved, although A.barbouri may be one of the main culprits rather than A.texanum. The animals you describe, Jaymes, sound intriguing.

The newts will all be the same. They may LOOK different, but will be genetically nearly identical. If you can't be sure of which they are, then it is likely they are intergrades, which will of course show a mix of features.
 
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Neotenic_Jaymes

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Andrew/Frogeyes I know what you mean. I briefly read and scanned over some papers on the whole ordeal on Ambystoma hybrids in MI a couple years back. Very complex! Crazy combinations of hybrids occur and crazy physical features as well. Next time I go out there I'll take more photos it was hard with so many bugs!
 

JessKB

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Had a great time with Jaymes the other day. He's a great guy to go herping with, and was able to answer a lot of my noobie questions. I figure it's a good day when you almost get tired of catching a handful of notos every two seconds :D I definitely look forward to going out again!
 

Nowicki418

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Sounds like you found a really great spot to have Ambystoma, Plethodon, and Newts all in the same area!
 

caudatadude28

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Nice finds James! Those certainly look like nvl's to me. The larvae look like they will have some red spotting. Im jealous of your finds! ;)
 
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