My opinion on Necturus untill further research.

R

ryan

New member
Joined
May 7, 2007
Messages
989
Reaction score
2
Points
0
Location
Pennsylvania
Country
United States
Display Name
Ryan
Alright here is what I think of Necturus. I think there are 6 species and 1 subspecies. Here is the breakdown.

Necturus spp.:
N. alabamensis- Black Warrior Waterdog- restricted to upper Alabama (Black Warrior River system)

N. beyeri- Gulf Coast Waterdog- distributed throughout eastern Texas and Western Louisiana onto Louisiana and Mississippi

N. beyer species cf beyeri (or just N. sp. because this undescribed species is very different from N. beyeri)-This species will probably/hopefully be given the invalid term N. lodingi- Eastern Gulf Coast Waterdog- Distributed in southern Alabama and the Florida panhandle

N. lewisi- Neuse River Waterdog- This waterdog is only so far found in the Neuse and Tar Rivers of Central Eastern North Carolina

N. maculosus- Mudpuppy- (largest species, most common) This species is found all over the Eastern part of the US

N. m. louisianensis- Red River Mudpuppy (only subspecies of any Necturus sp. This ssp. is considered a complete species by some people, as for me I believe it is a subspecies untill more information is found

N. punctatus- Dwarf Waterdog- Found in Sothern Virginia sothward to the Eastern parts of North Carolina, South Carolina, and Georgia

This is all my opinion and if anyone is not clear on this pleas post a comment.

(Message edited by i_love_necturus on March 29, 2007)
 
Thanks Ryan
It seems more clear now.
Your conclusions are very close to what I thought
 
Just want to change some thing. I didn't mean to italicize the common name Gulf Coast Waterdog, and I missed the e on please at the bottom sorry.

I'm glad I made this post because it makes me feel better about the genus.
 
I hope this will help you Jennifer, that discussion was pretty confusing.
 
Hi Ryan, i'd be interested if you shared some of this information that lead you to this conclusion.
Have you been out in the field?
 
Hey Ryan, I asked my boyfriend the marine biologist what he thought of your taxonomic studies into the mudpuppy
and he said he thought they should be classified under mammals and called "Canis mudpuppius slimus."

And he tells me most of MY jokes aren't funny.
smile6.gif
 
He got one thing right! Mudpuppies sure are slimy!! When I first got got Bart I had to pick her up to fix something in the tank. The shear amounts of slime on her body made her the most smooth thing I ever felt.
 
I have changed N. m. louisianensis to a full species, Necturus louisianensis.

I know believe there are 7 species.
 
New opinion

I think its this right now:

N. alabamensis
N. beyeri
N. lewisi
N. maculosus
N. m. louisianensis (could be a full species)
N. punctatus
N. species cf beyeri (N. lodinigi?)

6 species, 1 subspecies
Just my opinion, I think it is as good as it can get with the research I can get my hands on.
 
Necturus taxonomy

Hi Ryan,
I don't access the forum an awful lot so may never see this discussion again<LOL>, but you are correct. Depending on the authority, the Red River waterdog may be considered either a full species or a subspecies. I prefer to consider it a subspecies.

I just sent Jen several pix of individuals netted near Alexandria, Louisiana. She may post some as time permits.

The little water dog of the coastal plain east of Mobile Bay and west of the Apalachicola drainage is definitely not accurately described. It is not a beyeri as is shown in many guide books. But neither has it been scientifically described yet. It remains best referred to as you have done--Necturus sp. cf beyeri. If you need pix of this I could send them to Jen also. Rgds/Dick
 
It's nice to hear from you Dick. Thats great to hear that you sent Jen a pic of louisianensis because there isn't one on CC yet. I also think all of the other pix you sent in are great! I have seen many pictures of that undescribed waterdog (as it seems quite common) inluding the one in your book Guide And Reference to the Amphibians of Eastern And Central North America (North of Mexico). But more would always be great, ;) *wink wink*. Hopefully the genus Necturus will be cleared up a bit in the time to come.
 
I will be posting Dick's Necturus photos soon. (Be careful, Ryan, too much jumping up and down can be bad for your joints ;)) But I need to decide WHERE to put the infamous Eastern Gulf Coast Waterdog. They are sometimes called cf beyeri and sometimes cf alabamensis. I can believe they are more related to beyeri, but for historical reasons it seems that they are more often "attached" to alabamensis. I'm leaning towards making a separate entry for them, even though they aren't officially named.
 
Jen, you could make a seperate entry and call it "Necturus sp." so it wont be wrong, just not exact. Then inside the entry you could just say the names it was given: N. sp. cf beyeri, N. sp. cf alabamensis, and N. lodingi.

I saw the pics, they were great, I didn't exactly jump up and down, lol.
 
I never really thought much about the Genus Necturus, but after some reasearch I thought they were very interesting. I've enjoyed learning more about these guys, and this is an interesting perpective. Kudos!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
General chit-chat
Help Users
  • No one is chatting at the moment.
    There are no messages in the chat. Be the first one to say Hi!
    Back
    Top