Newt ID request

[fire_newt]

Hey everyone! My brother was out hiking yesterday and ran across this little guy walking across the snow. Do you know what he is? He was about an hour north of the Missoula, MT area.

 

[Chinadog]

Notopthalmus viridescens I think?

 

[FrogEyes]

Ambystoma mavortium melanostictum, which is the only species of salamander in Montana east of and outside of the mountains.

 

[Chinadog]

Oops, it looks like I was a mile off! It was the long toes and slender body that made me think it was a newt.

 

[JessKB]

Notopthalmus viridescens I think?

Looks like a noto to me too.

 

[FrogEyes]

Nope, not a newt. Smooth skin, suitable color and pattern, wide flat head, and the fact that there are no known newt populations in Montana (and only one report of a probably-introduced Taricha west of the Rockies).

 

[JessKB]

Look at the back feet. I've never seen a tiger with long toes like that. I don't think the photo is clear enough to determine the smoothness of the skin or the color. Also, look at the pine needles. That would be a tiny metamorph it is a tiger.

 

[fire_newt]

I don't know a lot about newt and salamander species, but I don't think it's a tiger, the toes don't appear to be the correct shape and length, and, though those pine needles are rather large, I still think the little guy is too small to be a tiger.... It it helps he was found at a higher elevation

 

[Chinadog]

I wish there was a better picture, If it is a tiger salamander it does have some unusual features, the long toes are very strange for a tiger, but then again the tail looks rounded like a Tiger rather than flattened like a Noto.

 

[sde]

My first thought is that it was a noto, but the location is wrong. However it looks nothing like a tiger to me except for the slightly rounded tail and small indistinct spots. Its tail to body length proportions don't look right for a tiger to me, as well as the toes, and overall body shape.
There are supposed to be some introduced Taricha in that area but it doesn't look like that to me.
To me, it looks like a noto, maybe one that was released? I just don't see how that could be a tiger.
A better picture would be awesome, do you have any others fire_newt?

 

[sde]

I've got it! A. macrodactylum! Its range does exist there, and the long toes explain are normal in this species, there does appear to be a fain stripe down the back, the size is right, and the color is correct.

 

[FrogEyes]

I was tied up with work, but was going to suggest A.krausei as a possibility. While they are not found much east of the Rockies, they do occur relatively close to Missoula, and very small animals I've seen have only been faintly marked at first. I've seen A.macrodactylum change shades from distinctly striped to almost uniformly dark, but haven't actually seen that happen in A.krausei. Again however, absolutely not a newt, but an ambystomid. Montana is also home to Plethodon idahoensis, which this certainly is not, and Dicamptodon aterrimus, which has a very limited known range in Montana [but is very Ambystoma-like].

 

[JoshBA]

I'm really going to have to make a herping trip over to the other side of the continental divide
The climate over there is definitely more in favorable to amphibians.
Over here the only abundant amphibians are tiger salamanders breeding in cattle ponds.

 

[fire_newt]

Boy you guys are smart! I can really see it now! When I was looking online I automatically threw out the possibility of the long-toed salamander because there was a lack of yellow on the back, but looking at the photo you can see that he does have light patterning (especially on the tail). Thank a lot you guys!!