Illness/Sickness: Paralysed/lethargic axolotl for no apparent reason???

[tigerxae]

I have a mature female albino axolotl that lives in a tank with some ghost shrimp, 3 balloon mollies and several trumpet snails. there is a sponge filter and some plants, as well as a hide.

before you go off on me about the temperature, she has been living in the tropics for over a year and is well acclimatised. she also has a cooling fan for when the weather gets too hot, so the temperature is usually 23-25 celsius. she has never had any signs of stress regarding water temperature or parameter. the person i bought her from said that she came from a line of axolotls that are bred in malaysia so they're all acclimatised to the weather here.

about a week ago, my little sister thought that it would be a fantastic idea to put her female betta in with the axolotl (??????) and the betta, being raised on a diet of bloodworms, obviously went straight for mudkip's gills. chewed off a good 80%.

yesterday i was watching her and i realised that she seemed to have lost the use of her front legs. being a overly anxious, first time axolotl keeper, i pored over the website to no avail. the closest answer i got was that paralysis of the back legs usually meant constipation.

the tank has a sand substrate, and she eats 70% earthworm, 30% superworm. she has eaten a few shrimp before, but nothing detrimental ever happened!

i've been monitoring her all morning and all she's been doing is going up to breathe air, and then wiggling down to rest in some weird position that freaks me out, e.g. lying against the filter vertically, or 45 degrees with her head in some plants. no attempt to move with her front legs, if there's any attempt at all.

water parameters are unknown for now as i have a final tmrw and i haven't had time to go get a new test kit, but the other organisms in the tank are showing no signs of stress, and i just did a 50% water change yesterday.

thanks for reading, and sorry for the ramble! i'm really worried, and also because i can't fridge her, the seller told me that the temperature change would kill her!!

 

[Skudo09]

That temperature is dangerously high and whilst you may not have had visible issues as a result of the high temperature, it doesn't mean that no ill effects have or are occurring. The high temperature may be contributing to the current problem you are experiencing. It will be affecting the lifespan of your axolotl and increasing the likelihood of your axolotl becoming ill. To help with your current situation and to prevent illness in the future I would suggest getting the temperature down below 20°C (ideal is 16-18°C). It is important to reduce the temperature gradually. At that high temperature you would likely need to invest in a chiller. i don't say this to have a go at you but it is an important factor to consider as most illnesses are a result of poor water quality including temperature.

Try to limit the amount of superworms you are giving as the chitin or hard exoskeleton can sometimes cause constipation as they find it difficult to digest.

I would invest in a liquid test kit as soon as possible so you can rule out any other water quality issues.

Balloon mollies are not suitable to be housed with axolotls. they are tropical fish requiring different temperatures to axolotls. It is not recommended to keep fish with axolotls due to risks of the fish picking on the axolotls, axolotls eating the fish, introduction of disease and parasites and often different requirements for care.

 

[axolodemia]

I have a mature female albino axolotl that lives in a tank with some ghost shrimp, 3 balloon mollies and several trumpet snails. there is a sponge filter and some plants, as well as a hide.

before you go off on me about the temperature, she has been living in the tropics for over a year and is well acclimatised. she also has a cooling fan for when the weather gets too hot, so the temperature is usually 23-25 celsius. she has never had any signs of stress regarding water temperature or parameter. the person i bought her from said that she came from a line of axolotls that are bred in malaysia so they're all acclimatised to the weather here.

about a week ago, my little sister thought that it would be a fantastic idea to put her female betta in with the axolotl (??????) and the betta, being raised on a diet of bloodworms, obviously went straight for mudkip's gills. chewed off a good 80%.

yesterday i was watching her and i realised that she seemed to have lost the use of her front legs. being a overly anxious, first time axolotl keeper, i pored over the website to no avail. the closest answer i got was that paralysis of the back legs usually meant constipation.

the tank has a sand substrate, and she eats 70% earthworm, 30% superworm. she has eaten a few shrimp before, but nothing detrimental ever happened!

i've been monitoring her all morning and all she's been doing is going up to breathe air, and then wiggling down to rest in some weird position that freaks me out, e.g. lying against the filter vertically, or 45 degrees with her head in some plants. no attempt to move with her front legs, if there's any attempt at all.

water parameters are unknown for now as i have a final tmrw and i haven't had time to go get a new test kit, but the other organisms in the tank are showing no signs of stress, and i just did a 50% water change yesterday.

thanks for reading, and sorry for the ramble! i'm really worried, and also because i can't fridge her, the seller told me that the temperature change would kill her!!

isolate your axolotl. get rid of the betta (while you're at it give your sister a stern talking to), the mollies (give them to a pet store or flush them), and the ghost shrimp (try pan frying or boiling them and serve with cocktail sauce), and let your axolotl be the only thing in the tank.

second, the temp you have them at sounds way too high to have year round. i don't care what the breeder told you (sales pitch imo). axolotls can survive in water that warm, but their growth will be stunted.

honestly, if you don't make those changes, i wouldn't be surprised if your axolotl only lives for a few more weeks. it already sounds like it's lost its will to live. it's being run over by everything else in your overcrowded tank.

pick one: fish tank or axolotl tank

 

[tigerxae]

ok, thank you for input.
i've already removed all other life forms in the tank. btw, the fishes and the shrimp are actually pretty small and the tank is 2 feet, so it's not exactly overcrowded.

i need to know if i should fridge her while i find a chiller. will the temperature change kill her, especially since she's in a tank of about 25?

i'm trying my best, really sorry. it's my first time keeping such a creature and i was foolish for believing everything the seller said.

 

[tigerxae]

i forgot to add that 2 days ago she started twitching, a bit like how your eye twitches when you pull an all nighter. could that be neurological?

 

[Skudo09]

I would advise against flushing the fish or pan trying the shrimp. This is advice with no consideration for the welfare of these living animals.

My concerns with the fish is that they are fish that you would not be able to meet the optimum living requirements without compromising the axolotls optimum living requirements or vice versa. It means you have to compromise on either species welfare. The shrimp I am not so worried about. The fish also pose a risk of picking on the axolotls gills. It is good that they are no longer sharing the tank with the axolotl.

Being new to keeping an animal is a learning curve and we all make mistakes. The important thing is that we learn from our mistakes and rectify them and put the welfare of the animal first. I was not intending to have a go at you at all. But it is very important to rectify the temperature as it is very high for axolotls and will be greatly increasing the chances of your axolotl becoming very ill or even dying. I suggest doing a lot of reading through threads on this forum and also axolotl.org as there is a lot of information you would find beneficial to allow you to keep your axolotl healthy and in optimum conditions.

There is a fridging guide in this section of the forum and it would be best to have a read through that thread if you choose to fridge your axolotl. If you cannot get the temperature down at all further until you can get a chiller installed, it may be safer to consider fridging. You can try and gradually decrease the temperature so keep a container of dechlorinated water in the fridge. Place your axolotl in a tub of his tank water and slowly add the dechlorinated water from the fridge a bit at a time and then place him in the fridge (follow the fridging guide on the forum). This way it would be a bit more gradual and prevent temperature shock. You will need to change the water in his tub every day (100% of the water). The easiest way to do this whilst he is in the fridge is keep a second tub in the fridge with fresh dechlorinated water to transfer him to and then refill the first tub with fresh dechlorinated water ready for the next day. How long do you think it will be before you can get a chiller? Be aware he would be unlikely to eat on the fridge as the low temperature will slow his metabolism down.

Make sure you also get a test kit asap and test the parameters for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and PH as well.

 

[axolodemia]

I would advise against flushing the fish or pan trying the shrimp. This is advice with no consideration for the welfare of these living animals.

Okay, I was clearly injecting a little satire there... But let me say that there is a fair percentage of vegetarians who have no problem eating seafood, and PETA's not going to firebomb your house if you flush a few 78 cent fish down the toilet.

My concern is for the obviously dying axolotl. If you need to sacrifice a few cheap fish for the welfare of a member of an endangered species, I could care less about the fish.

Normally, one or two ghost shrimp would be fine, might even be fun prey for your axie (along with the mollies... *clears throat*) if it were in optimal health, but this is an emergency situation. Your axolotl needs to be isolated.

Honestly, from what you're describing, your axolotl may not recover. I wouldn't even bother fridging it. Just extra stress on it moving around so much. I think your best bet would be to just feed a complete diet, let it take in all the nutrients it would need to heal itself, and keep its water clean.

As for whether or not your tank was overcrowded, I still maintain that it was. Axolotls need plenty of room, and may be discouraged from coming out of hiding if there are fish and shrimp everywhere.

Best of luck to you... next time you opt for a new pet, read up on it before it starts dying.

 

[Skudo09]

Axolotls can recover surprisingly well. Is your axolotl moving around at all still and eating? Or just lying still twitching? This doesn't sound great and may be best to seek veterinary care. Do you have a vet available in your area? I would still lean towards fridging as a temporary solution until you can get the temperature down in the tank.

Axolodemia, the value of the fish should not matter. They are a living animal and there are other solutions that are far more humane. I did suspect that you did intend your post with a little satire but it can be easily taken the wrong way.

 

[axolodemia]

Axolotls can recover surprisingly well. Is your axolotl moving around at all still and eating? Or just lying still twitching? This doesn't sound great and may be best to seek veterinary care. Do you have a vet available in your area? I would still lean towards fridging as a temporary solution until you can get the temperature down in the tank.

Axolodemia, the value of the fish should not matter. They are a living animal and there are other solutions that are far more humane. I did suspect that you did intend your post with a little satire but it can be easily taken the wrong way.

Man, I put a few ghost shrimp in with my axolotls every now and then with the intention of letting the axolotl hunt them. Is that inhumane? I continue to feed as I normally would, but small shrimp are natural prey for axolotls, and hunting keeps them sharp. If I had an extra tank running I might set it up as a detox for feeder fish to give the axolotls every now and then. I'm aware that fish is not a complete diet for them, but again, small fish are prey to wild axolotls, and the stimulation of chasing after its food rather than lazily being fed keeps it sharp.

Is it inhumane to cause the death of these fish or shrimp by feeding them to my axolotls? I'm acting in the best interest of my axolotls by causing the fish and shrimp to die. Can you see the parallels in this case? Here, the fish and shrimp are killing the axolotl, so the former need to be removed for the benefit of the latter. If the poster has an extra aquarium, sure, throw them in there. But if the poster doesn't, and keeping them all together would kill the endangered axolotl, I see no problem with flushing the 78 cent fish.

As for your other statement about axolotls recovering surprisingly well, this is true to an extent. Sure, healthy adults can regrow tissue and limbs, and healthy juveniles can even regrow eyes and lungs, but this axolotl is not healthy. In order to repair cellular damage, they need metabolic energy to express new proteins and create new cells. An axolotl with severely damaged gills doesn't have access to the oxygen it needs for these biological functions. I would also venture so far as to say that this axolotl isn't eating well as a result of the trauma, so it's probably not getting the calories it needs. The quality of life for this axolotl is miserable. Think of how you would feel if someone came along and ate 80% of your lungs, and you didn't have access to a hospital.

I say just continue feeding and cleaning as normal, maybe a little more frequently at first, but to not expect much. Hope for the best but expect the worst, you know?

 

[LSuzuki]

axolodemia - you are still new here, but if you read enough posts by the long-term members, you will see that one of the community standards is that animals to be disposed of should be disposed of humanely. This includes excess eggs.

Yes, that would seem to be a conflict - on the one hand, we feed live food, and if the fish were intended to be food, then their death would not be a pleasant one. On the other, if we are deliberately killing them for our convenience, we should do it humanely.

Also, I'm not sure how many parts of the world this is potentially an issue, but if there is any chance that an organism can survive the sewage system, then one must consider, it is potentially invasive or could it potentially be carrying pathogens that could affect the local natives?

 

[tigerxae]

update: lotl has been in a fridged container since yesterday. she hasn't eaten since but she has stopped twitching so much and is on her feet. front limbs still aren't moving though. if anything, her gills are actually starting to grow back.

i initially placed the mollies and the shrimp in the tank as feeder fish a few months back, but they managed to evade the lotl for so long so i let them stay in. there are plants in my tank so they spend their time around the plants. in fact, if you look at the tank, at first glance, you wouldn't even notice they were there. i wouldn't consider 6 shrimp and 3 2-cm mollies a crowd in a 2 by 1 feet tank.

axolodemia - your view on animal welfare is flawed. ever read animal farm? "all animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others" feeder fish is one issue, killing them just because i made a mistake in cohabiting is another.

i researched a lot on the lotl before getting her, actually. i did ask the seller many times if it was absolutely safe to not chill the water, and he always assured me that it was ok, and that she has lived over a year in the tropics with no ill effects. it was my mistake to trust the seller, but there's really no need to start assuming things.

i asked my teacher (who is a general vet) since there are no herp vets in the country, and he thinks it's a neurological problem that is unlikely to be caused by the temperature since it happened so fast, and that in warmer waters fungus/bacterial infection should be more likely but she has no symptoms of those.
i've also gone through 30 pages down this forum looking for similar symptoms but to no avail.
hoping it's something that can be cured soon. thank you all for your insight

 

[LSuzuki]

Good luck! I hope your axie makes a full recovery. :happy:

I can very well believe that some strains of axolotls could be more heat-tolerant than others, and wish it were easier to safely exchange axolotls internationally. As far as I'm concerned, any traits that make it easier for people to keep them in a "healthy" state should be propagated when possible.

 

[axolodemia]

Tigerxae, Animal Farm was a historical allegory about Stalinism. In the "some are more equal" quote, he's saying that those in positions of power treat themselves and their socioeconomic peers to luxuries unavailable to the working class, all while claiming to support equality and fairness.

In this case, the axolotl is endangered, and the balloon mollies are a dime a dozen.

You act high and mighty, but ask yourself this: two people are drowning and you can only save one. One is a well-respected surgeon, the other is a shiftless bum. Which do you save?

Anyway, back on topic. Do what you want, man. For future reference, the person selling you something is going to tell you whatever you want to hear, just so they can make a sale. Axolotls are not a beginner pet. But it's all hindsight now. Best of luck to you.

 

[axolodemia]

Okay, now I'm getting negative reputation points for defending the flushing of cheap fish when they're endangering the life of your axolotl?

If you read my initial post in this thread I said try giving them away, but if you can't, and you don't have an extra aquarium, go ahead and flush them.

You know, I'll take the heat for this one, but the bleeding hearts in this thread need to think long and hard about the ethics of sacrificing one life to save another.

Right and wrong isn't as black and white as they teach you in grade school.

 

[herpvet]

Okay, now I'm getting negative reputation points for defending the flushing of cheap fish when they're endangering the life of your axolotl?

If you read my initial post in this thread I said try giving them away, but if you can't, and you don't have an extra aquarium, go ahead and flush them.

You know, I'll take the heat for this one, but the bleeding hearts in this thread need to think long and hard about the ethics of sacrificing one life to save another.

Right and wrong isn't as black and white as they teach you in grade school.

Forgive me if I'm misinterpreting and you're suggesting flushing after humane euthanasia, but it sounds like you're advocating flushing live. It may not be "black and white" as to whether to sacrifice the fish, but if you do consider it necessary it's very definitely "black and white" that it should be done in the most humane manner feasible. Which certainly isn't flushing.

 

[axolodemia]

Forgive me if I'm misinterpreting and you're suggesting flushing after humane euthanasia, but it sounds like you're advocating flushing live. It may not be "black and white" as to whether to sacrifice the fish, but if you do consider it necessary it's very definitely "black and white" that it should be done in the most humane manner feasible. Which certainly isn't flushing.

Not everyone has access to potassium chloride and a syringe. Go ahead and attempt a cervical dislocation on a 1" fish. I never said flush live. I simply said to get rid of the fish and shrimp, and then laid out a few options for how to get rid of them.

Lobsters get boiled alive everyday, is that humane?

Feeder fish are swallowed whole everyday, is that humane?

Is it even humane to keep fish in an aquarium when they should be allowed to live full and enriched lives in the wild?

 

[LSuzuki]

There are humane ways to euthanize aquatic creatures that do not require expert knowledge or access to medical equipment.

Caudata Culture Articles - Euthanasia

 

[Skudo09]

Axolodemia, the welfare of all creatures should be considered as first priority. Flushing them is very cruel and completely unnecessary when there are far more humane methods. If you had read my post, I have stated that the fish should not be kept in the same tank buf here are options that could be considered that are humane options.

1. Set up a separate tank for the mollies. This way the OP can make sure that both the axolotl and the fish can be kept in optimum water conditions and doesn't need to compromise on either species living conditions

2. If option one is not possible, see if an aquarium shop or even an animal shelter can take the mollies and rehome them. Or even friends or family who may be able to provide them suitable living conditions

3. If options one and two are not possible, a humane method of euthanasia could be considered. This should be considered last resort and only if options one and two are just not possible and every effort to rehome them has been exhausted. At NO time should an inhumane method such as flushing them be considered. Humane options can be to take the fish to a vet or alternatively use a method such as the ones provided in the link by Laura. There is absolutely no reason why anyone should even consider flushing fish at all. Personally for home euthanasia I prefer the use of clove oil. But I maintain that revoking them should be preferable.

I feel that this debate is now taking away from us giving the OP some assistance so this is all I will say on the matter. Tigerxae, how is your axolotl doing?

 

[axolodemia]

Axolodemia, the welfare of all creatures should be considered as first priority. Flushing them is very cruel and completely unnecessary when there are far more humane methods. If you had read my post, I have stated that the fish should not be kept in the same tank buf here are options that could be considered that are humane options.

1. Set up a separate tank for the mollies. This way the OP can make sure that both the axolotl and the fish can be kept in optimum water conditions and doesn't need to compromise on either species living conditions

2. If option one is not possible, see if an aquarium shop or even an animal shelter can take the mollies and rehome them. Or even friends or family who may be able to provide them suitable living conditions

3. If options one and two are not possible, a humane method of euthanasia could be considered. This should be considered last resort and only if options one and two are just not possible and every effort to rehome them has been exhausted. At NO time should an inhumane method such as flushing them be considered. Humane options can be to take the fish to a vet or alternatively use a method such as the ones provided in the link by Laura. There is absolutely no reason why anyone should even consider flushing fish at all. Personally for home euthanasia I prefer the use of clove oil. But I maintain that revoking them should be preferable.

I feel that this debate is now taking away from us giving the OP some assistance so this is all I will say on the matter. Tigerxae, how is your axolotl doing?

dude, i said all that. look at my first post or two in this thread. i SAID try giving them away, but if you can't, and you don't have an extra aquarium, you need to get rid of them. you need to work on your reading comprehension.

 

[Skudo09]

dude, i said all that. look at my first post or two in this thread. i SAID try giving them away, but if you can't, and you don't have an extra aquarium, you need to get rid of them. you need to work on your reading comprehension.

I find your posts in this thread very rude and disrespectful. I did see you stating that they could be given away but you did not specify what I stated in my last post. Your only other option you stated was to flush them which is inhumane. I am not commenting any further on this subject as the OP came here looking for help and this thread is not the place to continue this discussion. Please try to refrain from insulting people. It doesn't solve anything and only makes it unpleasant for those just trying to seek help for their axolotl or those trying to help.