Paramesotriton deloustali

M

mark

Guest
I have found limited info on this species, I'm looking for pics and general info, anything would be appreciated. Thanks in advance!
 
N

nimbus2

Guest
Paramesotriton deloustali is critically endangered and considered possibly extinct by some herpetologists. Its last few refuges were apparently polluted by the construction of a hotel at Tam Dao. As far as I know, nobody has seen them since. Some Europeans claim to be keeping these, and maybe they are. But it seems unlikely. True P. deloustali was only found in a few highland waters in Vietnam.
 
B

brian

Guest
There is a guy named Rehak, from Czechoslovakia I believe, who kept, bred, and wrote several articles on deloustali. I have a copy of one of the papers if you're interested...anyway, I saw some of Henk's photos of deloustali at IAD and it is a remarkable animal. Bulky paramesotriton with a heavy looking Pachytriton type tail, much bulkier than a caudopunctatus. neat...
 
M

mark

Guest
I'm interested, if you could go ahead and mail it to me that'd be great.
 

ryan

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Brian, do you think you could email me a copy of those paper. I'd be interested in knowing about P. deloustali. Thanks for your help.

Ryan
 

ryan

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There are about 5 pictures of P. deloustali on AmphibiaWeb. It is an unbelievable animal!! If you haven't seen these pictures yet you should really have a look.

Ryan
 
E

ed

Guest
That's a very unusual looking animal. I've seen alot of different types of paramesos, but I don't recall ever seeing one quite like that. Reminds of a cross between a caudopunctatus and a chinensis or something similiar.
 
G

gustavo

Guest
HELLO NIMBUS 2 P.DELOUSTALI IS NOT EXTICT AT THE MOMENT BUT NOW THE AREA IS PLENTY OF NEW HOTELS AND KARAOKES AND THE NEW RICH PEOPLE FROM VIETNAM USING THE AREA FOR GO THE WEEKENDS,AND IS PLENTY OF TRASH.
 
N

nate

Guest
Gustavo, what's with the capitol letters? It's a bit like shouting.
 
S

steve

Guest
My LFS gets alot of the Paramesotriton species. Ive posted picturesof the few I had before here:

http://www.caudata.org/forum/messages/8/694.html?1020470546

of course THEY are NOT the deloustali BUT the other day at the fish store I seen about 2-3 left and i almost want to recheck them because I think one of the bellys resembled the photo here:

http://elib.cs.berkeley.edu/imgs/512x768/1111_1111/1111/0556.jpeg

BUT don't know.

Is there any TIPS you guys can give to "LOOK FOR" when I recheck the LFS again at this newt?


let me know

steve
 
C

chris

Guest
which species of paramesotriton are these two, and does anyone have any females of the appropriate species?

PS. The newt at the top has a faint, blue sheen on tail, newt at bottom has vivid, solid strip of electric blue on tail.
 
K

kai

Guest
Steve, the belly pattern is pretty variable in most Paramesotriton. Head shape is more valuable for identification.
 
T

tj

Guest
I find it helpful to have all available info in one place for easy reference (esp. when there is little info available!)

Great that we now have a P. deloustali dialogue going here. Here's my initial contribution.


First, some excerpts from a Birdlife International report entitled [Sourcebook of Existing and Proposed Protected Areas in Vietnam] (updated as of 20/02/01) and posted on the website of the Wild Bird Society of Japan at:

http://www.wing-wbsj.or.jp/~vietnam/source_book/sb_pdf/Tam_Dao.pdf

"One of the most notable species to occur at Tam Dao National Park is Vietnamese Salamander Paramesotriton deloustali, a globally threatened species, endemic to northern Vietnam."

"The Vietnamese Salamander population is threatened by habitat loss, collection for the pet trade (this species can be found on sale at Dong Xuan market in Hanoi) and pollution of the streams in which the species lives. Many of these threats are directly associated with the development of tourism in the national park."

The report cites a 1993 report in Vietnamese by the Forest Inventory and Planning Institute in Hanoi entitled [Investment plan for Tam Dao National Park]

By the way, I have been to this market, Hanoi's largest, numerous times but have only ever seen Tylotriton on sale there. Never been to Tam Dao though...

Tim
 
T

tj

Guest
Another more recent and detailed Birdlife report suggests the possible existence of P.deloustali at another location in northern Vietnam.

http://www.wing-wbsj.or.jp/~vietnam/pdf/reportVBan.pdf

Entitled [A Rapid Field Survey of Van Ban District, Lao Cai Province, Vietnam] and released last April, it has the following references:

"Three reptile species and one amphibian species recorded during the survey are listed in the Red Data Book of Vietnam...Of these species, P. cf. deloustali, is also listed in the 2000 IUCN Red List of Threatened Species (IUCN 2000) as vulnerable."

"Specimens of a salamander were collected from rivers and broad streams around Na Nheo village, at elevations between 600 and 900 m asl, and from a broad stream in lower montane evergreen forest at 1,000 m asl. All salamanders observed during the survey were in forested watercourses, in pools with sandy substrates and relatively gentle currents. The specimens were provisionally identified as Vietnamese Salamander Paramesotriton deloustali, although further studies are required to confirm this identification. P. deloustali is known only from northern Vietnam. Prior to this survey, the only confirmed records of this species were from north-eastern Vietnam, including from Tam Dao National Park and from Ba Be National Park and surrounding areas. The records from Van Ban district, if confirmed as P. deloustali, would be the first records of this species to the west of the Red River, and would significantly extend its known distribution."

"Further studies are required to evaluate the importance of Van Ban district for the conservation of Paramesotriton deloustali, to investigate its distribution and ecology, to identify threats, and to propose appropriate conservation measures."

Lao Cai, in the northwestern part of the country, is one of several provinces situated on the border with China. It's #2 on this map, while Vinh Phu, home to Tam Dao, is #10.

http://www.kinchandassociates.com/vietnam/maps/MAPS~1.HTML

It'd be interesting if anybody knows whether the specimens collected were subsequently confirmed to be P.deloustali...

Tim
 
K

kai

Guest
Chao anh Tim,

good idea. There are good breeding efforts with deloustali in Europe (I'd suggest to start a studbook) - the specimens originated from earlier imports to former East Germany and commercial imports during the early 90's. Since this species got protected status in Viet Nam there seem to have been only few illegal exports. I haven't heard of any but if you know what happens with turtles all across Asia (or rather worldwide) to keep Chinese consumers happy, it is clear that smuggling some deloustali will be done, too, if anybody is ready to pay the price. Happily, demand seems to be low and should be possible to be met with captive bred offspring.

Aside from deloustali-like Paramesotriton in the Red River basin, there certainly is at least another species (probably guangxiensis, but also another or several species are possible) in northernmost Viet Nam (Cao Bang/Lang Son, especially drainages belonging to the Pearl River basin). I've visited Cao Bang but wasn't successful at finding any caudates (wrong season) in the short time available.

Much work needs to be done on Vietnamese caudates and dedicated exploration is badly needed in river basins S and W of the Red River (in VN and Laos)...

Best wishes,
kai
 
T

tj

Guest
And there is this even more recent Birdlife report showing even wider distribution.

http://www.wing-wbsj.or.jp/~vietnam/pdf/reportHG.pdf

[A Rapid Field Survey of Xin Man and Yen Minh Districts, Ha Giang Province, Vietnam]

Issued last August, it says:

"During the rapid field survey...the most interesting finding was a population of Vietnamese Salamander Paramesotriton deloustali in Xin Man district. Voucher specimens were collected, identified by herpetologists at the Institute of Ecology and Biological Resources (IEBR) and Fauna and Flora International (FFI), and stored at the zoological museum at IEBR."

"On 17 May 2002, four Vietnamese Salamanders were collected in two different streams near Ban Xe village, Na Chi commune, Xin Man district. One specimen was collected at an elevation of 1,000 m asl, while the other three were collected at an elevation of 900 m asl. The colouration of the underside of the first specimen was brighter than that of the other three, and was determined to be a female by the herpetologists at IEBR."

"Vietnamese Salamander is listed in the 2000 IUCN Red List of Threatened Species (IUCN 2000) as vulnerable, and in the Red Data Book of Vietnam...as endangered. In addition, exploitation and utilisation of this species are strictly prohibited in Vietnam, following Decree No. 18/HDBT, dated 17 January 1992.

"Vietnamese Salamander is endemic to northern Vietnam, and its distribution includes Vinh Phuc, Thai Nguyen, Tuyen Quang, Bac Can, Lao Cai and Yen Bai provinces. The species often inhabits pools in streams, 0.5 to 1 m in depth, where stream flow is slow and the stream bed has a substrate of sand or stones. The breeding season of this species is from December to April."

"These records of Vietnamese Salamander, extend the known distribution of this endemic species, and, also, highlight the significance of natural freshwater habitats in Xin Man district for biodiversity conservation."

Ha Giang also borders China and is #3 on the above-linked map (which seems to be missing a couple of provinces...)
 
T

tj

Guest
And there is this even more recent Birdlife report showing even wider distribution.

http://www.wing-wbsj.or.jp/~vietnam/pdf/reportHG.pdf

[A Rapid Field Survey of Xin Man and Yen Minh Districts, Ha Giang Province, Vietnam]

Issued last August, it says:

"During the rapid field survey...the most interesting finding was a population of Vietnamese Salamander Paramesotriton deloustali in Xin Man district. Voucher specimens were collected, identified by herpetologists at the Institute of Ecology and Biological Resources (IEBR) and Fauna and Flora International (FFI), and stored at the zoological museum at IEBR."

"On 17 May 2002, four Vietnamese Salamanders were collected in two different streams near Ban Xe village, Na Chi commune, Xin Man district. One specimen was collected at an elevation of 1,000 m asl, while the other three were collected at an elevation of 900 m asl. The colouration of the underside of the first specimen was brighter than that of the other three, and was determined to be a female by the herpetologists at IEBR."

"Vietnamese Salamander is listed in the 2000 IUCN Red List of Threatened Species (IUCN 2000) as vulnerable, and in the Red Data Book of Vietnam...as endangered. In addition, exploitation and utilisation of this species are strictly prohibited in Vietnam, following Decree No. 18/HDBT, dated 17 January 1992.

"Vietnamese Salamander is endemic to northern Vietnam, and its distribution includes Vinh Phuc, Thai Nguyen, Tuyen Quang, Bac Can, Lao Cai and Yen Bai provinces. The species often inhabits pools in streams, 0.5 to 1 m in depth, where stream flow is slow and the stream bed has a substrate of sand or stones. The breeding season of this species is from December to April."

"These records of Vietnamese Salamander, extend the known distribution of this endemic species, and, also, highlight the significance of natural freshwater habitats in Xin Man district for biodiversity conservation."

Ha Giang also borders China and is #3 on the above-linked map (which seems to be missing a couple of provinces...)
 
T

tj

Guest
And there is this even more recent Birdlife report showing even wider distribution.

http://www.wing-wbsj.or.jp/~vietnam/pdf/reportHG.pdf

[A Rapid Field Survey of Xin Man and Yen Minh Districts, Ha Giang Province, Vietnam]

Issued last August, it says:

"During the rapid field survey...the most interesting finding was a population of Vietnamese Salamander Paramesotriton deloustali in Xin Man district. Voucher specimens were collected, identified by herpetologists at the Institute of Ecology and Biological Resources (IEBR) and Fauna and Flora International (FFI), and stored at the zoological museum at IEBR."

"On 17 May 2002, four Vietnamese Salamanders were collected in two different streams near Ban Xe village, Na Chi commune, Xin Man district. One specimen was collected at an elevation of 1,000 m asl, while the other three were collected at an elevation of 900 m asl. The colouration of the underside of the first specimen was brighter than that of the other three, and was determined to be a female by the herpetologists at IEBR."

"Vietnamese Salamander is listed in the 2000 IUCN Red List of Threatened Species (IUCN 2000) as vulnerable, and in the Red Data Book of Vietnam...as endangered. In addition, exploitation and utilisation of this species are strictly prohibited in Vietnam, following Decree No. 18/HDBT, dated 17 January 1992.

"Vietnamese Salamander is endemic to northern Vietnam, and its distribution includes Vinh Phuc, Thai Nguyen, Tuyen Quang, Bac Can, Lao Cai and Yen Bai provinces. The species often inhabits pools in streams, 0.5 to 1 m in depth, where stream flow is slow and the stream bed has a substrate of sand or stones. The breeding season of this species is from December to April."

"These records of Vietnamese Salamander, extend the known distribution of this endemic species, and, also, highlight the significance of natural freshwater habitats in Xin Man district for biodiversity conservation."

Ha Giang also borders China and is #3 on the above-linked map (which seems to be missing a couple of provinces...)
 
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