Peeling Skin

L

leigh

Guest
My axolotl looks terrible. It started peeling skin about 24 hours ago and it is getting worse. I have cleaned the filter which was very dirty and changed about 30% of the water. I have read about salt baths but only have table or sea salt to use. Can I use this? Also do I fully immerse him in the water? Won't it kill him if he breathes salt water? Please help, I hate seeing him like this.
 
I read about salt baths on another thread but still unsure if to fully submerge my axol. Please help. I am pretty sure I need to do this but unsure about putting his head under. Will it kill him. Urgent!
 
You put him all the way under it wont kill him. I think its no more than 10 minutes twice a day.
 
Thanks I will try that now. Do you think I should give the tank a full clean as there was a lot of gunk in the filter. Also i use rain water to fill his tank, not tap water. Is this OK? Sorry to sound so stupid but I am a beginner and really love this little creature. Am trying to do the right thing. Also the Pet Shop said to feed him Mealworms. I have read I should not do this exclusively. I put a guppy in the tank, but he doesn't seem much interested.
 
I gave him his salt bath and the white flaky skin seems to have come off him. I also cleaned the filter again and changed a little of his water. He is back in his tank and sitting under the filter bubbles flapping his gills. i also put one of my childrens ice packs inside a zip lock bag and put this in the tank as it is 36C here today and maybe the water is too warm. Will salt bath him again tonight. He doesn't seem much interested in food. I put a block of frozen beef heart in the tank. Hope I have done the right thing as I would hate to lose him.
 
Did you clean the filter all the way? If you did you might cause it to recycle. I would get the water tested. The water is way to hot!!! Needs to be below 20C. When they are sick they don't like to eat much. I would take the guppy out. It could be carry something and might nibble on his gills. Do you have him on gravel?
 
Thanks Karrie,
I have cleaned the filter as said on the instructions ysterday and today. It wasn't very dirty today. My children have put a larger ice brick in the tank in a zip lock bag. He is kinda floating sometimes and very still. I have also seen him go to the top for air maybe. Looks qite sick and the kids and I are very concerned. I will take the guppy out. Should i also take out the beef heart block? I don't know what else to do. I have read about putting them in the fridge, but this seems a bit radical and I couldn't put the air and filter in there as well. Do you think he will die. i feel so useless. i will see if the petshop tests water. Maybe there was a lot of poo in his filter and the water is tainted. He is on gravel.
 
Guppy is gone. He must have eaten it. The water temperature is not dropping. We have tested the thermometer and it works. Water temp is about 26C. It has been extremely hot here today. Maybe it will cool down soon as the sun will go down in an hour or so. Regards
leigh
Ps excuse the spelling mistakes before. Didn't have my glasses on.
 
Sorry, guppy was still there hiding behind the filter I think. It is out now.
 
Just off to bed but I thought I would bring you up to date. Axol appears happier. His skin is already looking better after 2 salt baths - and it didn't kill him. Still struggling with the water temp. just under 26C. I am floating ice blocks and have taken 2 L out and replaced it with refridgerated rain water, so hopefully we are over the worst. Thanks for the advice Karrie. It was a traumatic day for all of us!
 
Leigh get your tankwater tested~! Take a sample of tankwater to your petshop, ask them to test it for ammonia, nitrite and nitrates; then make sure they write the figures down for each and post them here, so someone can help you..

Warmer tank temperatures also have less oxygen.

Another way to cool your tank is move your tank away from direct light and heat sources, if need be move to coolest part of the house and close curtains or keep well away from window (I have mine on floor in spare bedroom, curtains shut).

You can also use a fan to help cool it. If you can get hold of a pedestal fan you can then angle and adjust the height - they're great!



<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!><font size=1>Quoting Leigh Josey on Sunday 11 February 2007 - 12:28 (#POST120963):</font>

replaced it with refridgerated rain water<!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote>

Did you pour the rain water straight in or float it in waterbottles? Just that if you did pour it in this will cause fluctuating temperatures.

<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!><font size=1>Quoting Leigh Josey on Sunday 11 February 2007 - 01:32 (#POST120919):</font>

Do you think I should give the tank a full clean as there was a lot of gunk in the filter.<!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote>

Never give your tank a full clean. Partial waterchanges done daily or every few days is better than one big clean which can throw your cycled tank out and cause it to restart the nitrogen cycle to establish the good bacteria.

BTW how long
a) have you had your axolotl; and
b) has your tank been running before adding your axolotl to it?
c) most importantly did you cycle your tank?

Please read this link on the cycling: http://www.caudata.org/cc/articles/cyclingEDK.shtml

If, as I suspect your tank is "new" and you have only had your axie a couple of days or few weeks, then the peeling to his body may be due to water quality; ie ammonia/nitrite building up. This is part of the cycling (which is from the axie poo/urine and any uneaten food/waste left there). While your tank is cycling you have to do regular, daily 20-30% waterchanges to keep the water safe enough for your axie to live in. You will alo have to get your tankwater tested regularly, test before a waterchange or every few days if you don't have the test kits.

Don't take the advice from the petshop if they want to sell you products to get rid of the ammonia/nitrite or cycle your tank faster. The best way to remove ammonia/nitrite is daily partial waterchanges, never full waterchanges.

You can buy a master freshwater test kit, which includes tests for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, low pH and high pH, they cost about $50-$75 here in NZ, not sure how much they are in Australia tho.


If you can remove the guppy too.



<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!><font size=1>Quoting Leigh Josey on Sunday 11 February 2007 - 00:16 (#POST120903):</font>

I have cleaned the filter which was very dirty and changed about 30% of the water<!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote>

Filters should not be cleaned the same day you do a waterchange; and when you do rinse it out, it should be cleaned in tankwater and not shaken/cleaned vigorously. If your tank is not cycled then your cleaning the dirty gunk may not be a good idea at this point.

Another good investment is a turkey baster if you can buy one, these are great for spot cleaning any axie poo or bits of uneaten/regurgitated food and waste.

When you do feed, once he starts eating, remove any uneaten food about 30mins-an hour after feeding otherwise it just adds more waste to bioload.

The best food for an axolotl is earthworms if you can get them and start a wormfarm. If you use mealworms, you're right they should only be used occasionally but make sure to chop the heads off as they can nip/hurt your axie as it tries to swallow it.

How big is your axie?

Any questions don't hesitate to ask, this forum is a great source of help and advice, moreso than any petshop I've ever dealt with.

Also, consider the fridging solution, if your axie starts getting stressed/ill/peeling again or you cannot maintain the tank temperature below 24 degrees, ideally below 20 degrees, then you should consider fridging as an option. I have put my babies, 6 1year olds/4 4 year olds, in the fridge many times over the past year due to illness of various sorts and has been a lifesaver. A coupld of axie owners also fridge their axies during the extreme summer heat as they're unable to keep the temperature below 24degrees.

If your axie starts peeling again, don't saltbath, this is mainly used for fungal or open wound infections, put him in the fridge in fresh dechlorinated water, not the tankwater and test your tankwater.

Sorry if my answers/queries seem all over the place but trying to give you as much advice as I can in relation to your threads; and it's early hours of the morning...

(Message edited by kapo on February 11, 2007)
 
The gravel is a problem when they eat they eat that at the same time could block him up. Needs to be on sand or bare floor. You can also try a fan blowing over the top of the tank over the water.
 
Hi Karrie,
I have water to take into the petshop for testing. If they don't do it I could try the pool shop - I think they do it. Watertemp is about 24-25C this morning. Will keep adding refridgerated rain water until I get more sucess. Got to go to work. Axol seems a bit better. Still a bit of peeling skin. i will stop the salt baths though. i will talk tonite.
regards,
Leigh
 
I can't find where the message went before I had to serve dinner. We have had Axol about 10 weeks - no trouble until the last few days but it has been much hotter. Still having trouble with the water temp about 26C. I still have ice packs in the tank in bags, have put a fan over it, even though there is one in the room on the roof and have been removing 2L of water and replacing with refridgerated rain water straight into the tank. Axol still has peeling skin but doesn't look like he is going to die over nite. Going to try to get him better food tomorrow - using frozen beef heart blocks now not meal worms as the Pet shop said. Will replace the gravel with sand. Did not cycle the tank as I did not know I had to. feel terrible for being so neglectful of Axol. Have many other pets who rarely get ill, so feel really awful. Will try the fridge if things don't improve soon. Need to go to bed now as it is hot and had a big day at work. Hopefully axol will see another day in and I can help him get better. Have stopped the salt baths. thanks everyone for the advice. I am so crankly the pet shop did not tell me this stuff. getting the water tested tomorrow as the guy who does that was not there today, so hopefully that will help sort things out more. I just don't know that it could be heat alone doing this ti him. Bye, hope where you live the weather is not as hostile as it has been here lately. feels like a cyclone may be lurking with this weather.
regards
Leigh
 
Hi Leigh, it's understandable how you feel many people find this site through surfing, unless told, because their axie has some illness or other.

The conditions of the skin peeling sounds more water related - your tank may very well have cycled within the 10 weeks but the heat wouldn't have helped if its' immune system had been lowered due to water quality.

Most petshop assistants don't tell you about cycling a tank because they don't know. They're only in the business of selling pets and products/accessories. I tried to get a shop assistant to explain cycling to me when we first started preparing for our axies - they just told me to add a product called cycle, let it run for a week, add some more leave for another week then add the "animals" one each week and it will be cycled! Luckily we spotted this site and the axolotl.org website advertised on an auctionsite long before we got our axies; so we had time to learn/sort things out!


I hope your weather improves/gets cooler soon! Some aussies have invested in bar fridges or 2nd hand fridges solely for their axies and keep the temperature at 10 degrees. Another axie owner or two kept their axie in the fridge the whole summer (only taking it out when it cooled down).

Good luck and keep us posted!
 
Sucess. water temp now at 23C. the fan works a treat. am still floating ice and adding fridge water. Getting the water tested today and getting proper food if I can today. Axol still not eating - maybe he is hanging out for the tasty meal worms. Thaks heaps
Leigh
 
Just got home. poor Axol looked dead. was floating almost on his back and dead still. Not dead though as he just moved a little when I touched him. another very hot day here. water temp back up to 26C. The pet shop tested the water. :
Ph is 4
Nitrate was 80
She didn't test for amonia said it would be really bad. there was zero bacteria in the water. She told me to get rid of it all and start again and put some stuff called bio... in the water/filer to start the bacteria. Told me sand was bad, gravel was OK. Said meal worms were fine that's what is mostly used. Can't access blood worms, earthworms, brine shrimp as they die before they get this far. Don't know what to do. Think I am going to lose him. I am going to put him in the fridge. There were instructions for this on another thread. Hope I don't kill him. Getting desperate now!
Regards
Leigh
 
Geez she pees me off and I'm not dealing with her! I feel really sorry that you have to deal with that person! She sounds like a stupid woman. If ur going to listen to her then you may very well end up with a dead axie. I thought you'd visited this forum for help on your axie, I really hope you don't listen to any of her advice.

When you put him in the fridge, put enough dechlorinated water in to just cover him, and allow him to stop floating or flipping over, so his feet rest on the bottom.

Place a lid on top, and wrap with a teatowel then place him in the fridge.

Put another bottle of dechlorinated water in the fridge at the same time, in a soft drink bottle. This will be used for complete daily changes.

<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!><font size=1>Quoting Leigh Josey on Tuesday 13 February 2007 - 06:18 (#POST121349):</font>

She didn't test for amonia said it would be really bad<!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote>

Can't understand why she didn't test for it especially if she knew it was going to be very bad.

My advice, is to buy your own freshwater master test kit - this contains all the tests you need to test your water for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, low pH and high pH. It's one of the best investments you can get. Also, the only other thing you really need to buy if anything would be a water conditioner/dechlorinator, not anything else she's mentioned.


<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!><font size=1>Quoting Leigh Josey on Tuesday 13 February 2007 - 06:18 (#POST121349):</font>

zero bacteria in the water<!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote> do you mean nitrite? Nitrate is also a bacteria.

<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!><font size=1>Quoting Leigh Josey on Tuesday 13 February 2007 - 06:18 (#POST121349):</font>

She told me to get rid of it all and start again and put some stuff called bio... in the water/filer to start the bacteria<!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote>

Look don't get rid of it all, you've already got your good bacteria which is the nitrate! If nitrite is 0, then the problem with the peeling skin is the ammonia (but you won't know that as you only have her word for it that it is really bad but you don't know the levels).

I use sand the only time gravel would be ok to use is if you permanently siliconed it to your tank as permanent substrate so they can't swallow it. My poor axies still poo out 1-1.5cm gravel that they have not been on since January last year! Mine are lucky but at worst they could have become permanently blocked, had a prolapse and at worst died!

My two timid 4 year olds were also subject to water quality issues when we bought them, you could see how thin their skin was and they had no gill filaments *frilly gills* which had been more or less burned away and their gill stubs were short and stunted and they looked constantly pink (or in the case of our wildtype whitish). The owner had no time to look after them and they hadn't had a water change in a month; plus they had an inferior internal filter which caused horrendous water flow in the tank.

<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!><font size=1>Quoting Leigh Josey on Tuesday 13 February 2007 - 06:18 (#POST121349):</font>

Said meal worms were fine that's what is mostly used<!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote> Meal worms aren't fine, and knowing the petshops if they're anything like some of ours they don't cut off the head which can nip and bite inside an axie body.

<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!><font size=1>Quoting Leigh Josey on Tuesday 13 February 2007 - 06:18 (#POST121349):</font>

Can't access blood worms, earthworms, brine shrimp as they die before they get this far<!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote> Do they not sell frozen blood worm cube at the petshop? If not, an alternative till you sort something out is you can feed your axie raw meat, like liver/heart, cut into wormlike strips but cut the fat and tendons off. Mary , another NZer, feeds hers a small morsel of snitzel and steak and stuff while she's preparing dinner - my family would object especially if I fed the fish and prawns!

As for worms do you have a local garden centre (not sure if your Bunnings will do it) but find out if they have access to wormfarms and where to get a supply of worms. You might find they can source it for you. Do you have baitshops? We don't but if you do you may also be able to buy worms there. You could also try an axolotl pellet, see if he'll take them (mine don't!)

Mine are mainly fed worms from my earthworm, but have discovered they also love catching mozzies - if they settle on their water (seem to have a lot at the moment - my sister didn't tell me she left a bucket of mozzy larvae which she feeds her 1=2inch babies).

Keep Axol in the fridge till the weather stabilises and cools a bit (though probably be a while in Oz). While he's in the tank, if you can get the test kits, test your water for the ammonia, nitrite and nitrate.

There is absolutely no need to add a bio/filter or any other chemical or product to kickstart or fix your tank. Things can be fixed with something as simple as daily partial waterchanges.

Never change your tank completely. I hope Axol pulls through and really hope you don't heed the advice of an, as far as I'm concerned incompetent person, who knows absolutely nothing about the care of axolotls or the proper cycling and/or care of a tank.
 
Axol is still alive. looking a bit pink. Am going to turn the fridge temp up a bit as I think it is too cold about5C. I think I will have to keep him in the fridge for a prolonged period of time - maybe a month as it is sooo hot here at the moment. We had the hottest temp in Australia yesterday. I live in Ingham in Far North queensland - half way between Townsville and Cairns. they probably should not sell Axolotls up here as the environment is just too harsh, but as we have Axol now and he is a family member he will be well looked after. If I could safely get him a home down south where he could be happy and on show like he should be I would. Maybe I will work on this option.
Regards
Leigh
 
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