Question: Peroxide and Axies to kill blue/green algae

[MereB]

Not 100% sure where to post this. The sick axies section didn't really seem right since it's just an algae problem and as this is only my 2nd day on the site PLEASE be kind if it is in the wrong place :blush:

Here we go
Evidently there was a little bluegreen algae on one of the plants that was added to the axie tank last week and it has flourished in the nice clean water and almost all day sunshine it get's in the tank
Now Hubby is a fish person and the treatment to the algae with his fish has always been to dose the tank with peroxide (harmless for fish) then use the diatom filter to remove the dead algae HOWEVER and we're new to Axies and not sure if you can dose an axie tank in the same way.
The peroxide breaks down into water and oxygen withing an hour or 2 and then it's not an issue but he wanted me to ask anyway
I've told him you would all say move them to another tank for a few hours or for the day but it would be remiss of me not to ask the opinions of those more experienced just in case I'm wrong and it's a real problem to have it in their water at all.

SO Do we need to remove our 2 adult Axies from their 4ft blue green algae infested tank while it's being treated with the peroxide?

Edited to add we've tried non chemical control (scrubbing manually and removing severely affected foliage) but it just keeps getting worse.

 

[blackdog]

I can't give you a definitive answer, but i think you have already answered it yourself.

I'd move them and make sure the peroxide was gone before placing them back in.

As you know, Axies have skin not scales, so will absorb nasties faster and easier than fish.

I could not imagine a dose of peroxide is going to be good for them

A big bucket with a lid, or a plastic file box from kmart will be a fine home for your axies for a day or two - so i'd toss them in there, treat your tank and put them back after you have it right.

Even without a filter in the bucket / box - they will be fine with a small daily water change

Bren

 

[MereB]

Thank you Bren
I figured better to be safe than sorry but hubby does like to do things the easiest way possible I told hime about the skin/scales deal but he still insisted I ask LOL.

We actually have another tank that is currently empty... well except for Fish (their baby) who is in the little intank net while he still needs BBS. I'll move them to there for a day or 2 it's a good foot shorter than their tank but has a filter and is well cycled and nice and stable and put them back when everything returns to normal.

Thanks again Bren, just needed someone to agree with me LOVE it when I'm right

 

[ted22]

Yo I wouldnt do it, axies are so sensitive to anything in the water and peroxide is pretty nasty stuff even to us humans! If you have an algae problem the best way of irradicating it is finding the source of the problem (sunlight, over feeding the tank, too many nutrients in the water, too much light etc) once you find the cause you will know what to do to keep it under control (feed less, more water changes etc) If there is nothing for the algae to feed on it will die and start retreating. Doing it your way may get rid of the algea (temporarily) but if the actual cause of the algae outbreak is not controlled it will just come back again! More live plants can help reduce algae as they compete with the algae for nutrients leaving less for algae growth!

I wouldnt use any kind of chemicals as it is only a temporary fix, look for excessive nutrients and light thats what causes the algae outbreaks!

Ive got alot of brown algae in my guppy tank it is caused by excess silicates in from the glass and gravel, once it has used up these silicates the algae will start retreating making way for some loverly green algae! Its just one of those things that is out of my control, chemicals and treatments will work but untill all those nutrients are used up it will just keep coming back!

Find the source and all will become clear!

 

[Abrahm]

I have to agree with Ed here. Hydrogen peroxide is only a quick fix and will only solve your problem temporarily. Look for those root issues and attack them and eventually the bluegreen algae should clear up.

Hydrogen peroxide (the type of peroxide sold at pharmacies, etc.) is a powerful oxidizer and could cause problems with the delicate skin of an axolotl. Even worse, due to their semi-permeable skin it may cause internal problems. Of course, pharmacy concentrations are quite dilute, but it's still a good idea to avoid it.

 

[MereB]

I know where the Algae came from, it came from a small lump of Java moss covered driftwood my 5 year old stole out of hubbys hothouse when he wasn't looking that had been set aside a few mins earlier to be disposed of because of the bluegreen on it. It wasn't in the water long, but clearly it left behind a little something

It is already well planted, we grow and sell aquarium plants so there are TONS in there around the back and sides of the tank. It had been running for 8 weeks with zero algae growth so very sure that the driftwood is where it came from.
I'm not worried about algae in general just the blue green slime, awful stuff.

There is no food left in the tank after feeding, I hand feed them and only give as much as they will take so no excess food to feed the stuff and the water is tested every other day so the Ammonia & Nitrate don't get out of control. We have over the last week systematically removed what we could and the diatom filter has been running to remove any of the tiny bits that are in the water due to the disturbance. The permanently affixed natural rock background that it is growing all over is an entirely different matter and will require scrubbing..again.

Hubby has kept aquariums and fish for 30 years and, until 2 years ago worked, in the pet industry for 2/3 of that time. Somehow managing to avoid axies in all that time, go figure.
This is not the first time he has treated for this little bugger. We had an outbreak in our main tropical aquarium (came from the water with a fish that a friend gave us when it outgrew their tank) 3 years ago, treated it and it hasn't been back since. Fish however are much less sensitive and will happily stay in the tank while it's being treated.

I was NOT going to let him dose the tank with the axies in there, just needed a more experienced opinion to convince hubby I was right to move them out, for whatever reason he wasn't entirely convinced I knew what I was on about.

It's not a case of dump some peroxide in and hope for the best, it is a carefully calculated dose that takes into account the volume of water being treated and the molarity of the solution of hydrogen peroxide being used to get the EXACT amount required to kill the bacteria and leave nothing nasty behind.
It's a strong chemical Yes but one that leaves NO residual after a couple of hours, when used in the correct quantity. It is rapidly transformed (oxidised) into Water and oxygen leaving nothing else.
It's only a quick fix if you don't remove the underlying causes and apart from stripping the tank bare and starting from scratch then re-cycle the tank for several weeks it's all we can do.
Once this particular algae, although technically it's the bacteria (Cyanobacteria), has been killed and the water born particles removed (just to be sure) with the diatom and the plants have been removed and replaced with the ones that were treated yesterday (all of which can be done with minimal disruption to the water balance and with little more than a regular water change to vacuum the sand) the blue green will, hopefully, be gone for good unless we add something contaminated again... won't be doing that in a hurry.
If it isn't gone we will strip the tank but that is a last resort as I do not want to keep them in the smaller tank for that long, it's not quite big enough for the 2 of them for too long.

There is much debate as to whether it has an overly negative effect on the nitrafying bacteria in the filter but it's been our experience that the effect is minimal if it affects them at all. Hence the water testing post treatment.

The peroxide will be gone in less than a day but he axies will be out for a MINIMUM of 2 until we can be sure the water quality is stable.

To clarify the axies will NOT be in the tank while this is happening... that's just crazy talk! We will however leave the few small Guppies in there.

 

[Abrahm]

My personal philosophy is to put as much information into posts as possible so that drive by readers, who may not have you impressive knowledge base, won't accidentally make mistakes. If I offended you with that, I'm quite sorry.

Would you mind posting your calculations for tank dosing with hydrogen peroxide? As you say, it does break down quickly and if it makes a good cyanobacteriacide that'd be useful information to have around.

I hope your husband was convinced and that treatment goes smoothly.

 

[MereB]

My personal philosophy is to put as much information into posts as possible so that drive by readers, who may not have you impressive knowledge base, won't accidentally make mistakes. If I offended you with that, I'm quite sorry.

Would you mind posting your calculations for tank dosing with hydrogen peroxide? As you say, it does break down quickly and if it makes a good cyanobacteriacide that'd be useful information to have around.

I hope your husband was convinced and that treatment goes smoothly.

Not offended, there was no way for you to know what if any knowledge I have and while I know very little of axies (and I think I got stuck in newbie mode when I first posted) I do have a science (Chem & Bio) background and Hubby has been doing fish longer than I have been on the planet (only just ) but you, and everyone else, had NO way of knowing any of that.

LOL Yes he was convinced Thank you Not sure why he was so reluctant to take my word for it, still starting Saturday morning they will go into a tub with some frozen blood worm, a treat, while we slowly add water from the new tank to try and minimize any stress and shock that could occur if we had just dump them straight into their temporary home. While the water in the other tank is wonderful, it's not going to be exactly the same as the water they are in I REALLY don't want to hurt my sons pets besides it will give me the chance to rinse them in the clean water before introducing them to the new tank, don't want to spread the problem to the new tank and potentially back again in the water clinging to their skin :wacko:

Totally get the volume of info thing, I'm usually quite shocking for giving HEAPS of info. Guess I was just trying to get a "Yes remove them" more than anything else, sorry.

I'm not opposed to true algae (green hair etc.) in an aquarium, it's only natural and can be beneficial, but some of the cyano strains can be toxic to humans, fish and amphibians alike and the makes the water smell horrendous :uhoh: so it has to go. Fortunately this one doesn't seem to be toxic. They are still looking really good and are feeding well and my sensitive skin is not showing and adverse reaction to it.

It's extremely effective on the Cyano. There are a few ideas on the web for the concentration required to do the job. One that is quite conservative... and from experience isn't quite enough to the other extreme that I suspect would kill even the heartiest of fish let alone an axolotl and of course everything in between.

I'll get Hubby to post the calculation he uses when he get's home from work tonight for you.

 

[MereB]

OKIES then you need..

3mls of a 50% Hydrogen Peroxide solution for every 100L of tank water that you have in the tank at the time of treatment and if it's all over the tank you will want it full.
To calculate the volume of water multiply, in centimeters, your tanks Length X Breadth (Front to back) X Height (measure the depth of the water in the tank) then divide by 1000. and of course there are 2.54cm's in every inch and 12 inches in each foot

The algae will stay green-blue for a little while but as they die, like your regular garden variety weed it will go brown and then turn white. Not unlike what happens if you leave algae out of the water in the sun. You can retreat after a few hours if you really want to but it shouldn't be necessary.
If you have NOTHING alive in the tank you can double the dose but don't do it if there is anything in there in the way of animals with the possible exception of problem snails then leave it 24 hours before you put any animals back in the tank to be 1,000,000% sure all the peroxide has been oxidised.

We finished up doing a 50% water change on ours on the process of syphening the sand so will be watching it's chemical composition closely. It was still fine last night but all that can change very quickly if it needs to cycle again.

 

[oceanblue]

This old thread has had lots of views over the years but needs updating. Hydrogen peroxide has a specific anti-cyanobacter (blue green algae) effect and at the right dose kills it but leaves almost every other organism unharmed. The trouble is the dosage is crucial and the dosage stated above seems wrong in the light of research published after the above post.

The dose found optimum and backed up with research in flasks, tanks and a large lake in the Nederlands is 2mg/l;- less than 1mg does not kill all the cyanobacteria and 2.5mg starts to kill zooplankton. See the attachment for details.

50% hydrogen peroxide is nasty stuff, rocket fuel and an explosive oxidant. A 100 litre tank needs only 200 mg of peroxide and the dose of 3ml 50% solution would supply 1500mg. I wonder if 50% is a typo but it has survived 2000+ views!

3.3ml of 6% (20 volume) or 6.6ml of 3% hydrogen peroxide for 100L would be in line with the paper and these strengths are readily available retail.