Phylogenic tree - conserved genes...need sources

paris

New member
Joined
Oct 9, 2002
Messages
1,756
Reaction score
4
Points
0
Age
56
Location
Nolanville TX
Country
United States
Display Name
Paris Reilley
Anyone know of an online source for a good quality phylogenic tree for amphibia? a larger format file would be best as I anticipate I will have to pin it to a wall and draw a lot of info on it.

it would be great to find one with genes lost/conserved/gained mapped out, but if anyone knows of a database I can look the genetic profiles up in, I will also appreciate this. I have access to anything, probably, since I am with A&M, i just need to be pointed in the right direction.

also I am looking for sources and researchers who deal with the genes in amphibia. I am guessing I have to look for eve/devo people.but
 
Virtually every amphibian taxonomist these days deals with genetic data. A request for a list of researchers is something I won't touch with a ten foot pole. Such a pole might not be long enough to measure a page of such names. For amphibians as a whole, there are two major works. The first has a lengthy list of authors beginning with Frost, dated 2006, and published by the AMNH. That paper is available from the CNAH library for no charge, is available from the AMNH at no charge, and is likely linked in a thread here. The second is more recent, Pyron & Wiens 2008. The latter article is primarily a revised family tree, and is available from Wiens' website, probably CNAH, and likewise probably in the threads here.

In addition, there have been major revisionary papers on the following taxa:
Mantellidae
Plethodontidae
Bolitoglossa
Terrarana
Eleutherodactylidae
Hylidae
Brachycephalidae
Athesphatanura [primarily Dendrobatidae/Aromobatidae]
Phyllomedusidae
Gymnophiona
Centrolenidae
Ranitomeya [Dendrobatidae]

Significant authors include Bossuyt, Roelants, Frost, Pyron, Wiens, Wake, Cannatella, Faivovich, Hedges, and many others. Many provide papers on their own websites, and many major papers are available in the CNAH library [search by any author name and the year]. Hedges has a nice circular graphic available from one of his sites, while the first two papers I mention include extensive diagrams.

Basically, no single paper stands alone, since there have been major papers which cover all groups, but smaller "major" papers which revise the arrange within and between certain groups. In addition, you likely won't find the kind of data you're asking for. Most studies are based on variation within genes, not presence or absence of genes. Alleles, yes; genes, no. Likewise, when you're talking about 7000 species in close to 100 families, what is significant in each group is different, and you can't possibly fit such details onto a graph of such a massive group. Even between subspecies or populations, there may be dozens of differing alleles.

Yes, I have most or all of these papers. Tracking them down right now is not a quick job, and the major ones are too large to email, so finding and downloading them is better [see also "CNAH" and the various author names].
 
The first has a lengthy list of authors beginning with Frost, dated 2006, and published by the AMNH. That paper is available from the CNAH library for no charge, is available from the AMNH at no charge, and is likely linked in a thread here. The second is more recent, Pyron & Wiens 2008. The latter article is primarily a revised family tree, and is available from Wiens' website, probably CNAH, and likewise probably in the threads here.

I have links for these to hand, as I've just been re-indexing some files.

Frost et al, 2006. The amphibian tree of life. Bulletin of the AMNH, no. 297.
http://digitallibrary.amnh.org/dspace/bitstream/handle/2246/5781/B297.pdf

Pyron, R. A., and J. J. Wiens. 2011. A large-scale phylogeny of Amphibia including over 2,800 species, and a revised classification of extant frogs, salamanders, and caecilians. Molecular Phylogenetics and Evolution 61:543–583.
http://life.bio.sunysb.edu/ee/wienslab/wienspdfs/2011/Pyron_Wiens_MPE_2011.pdf
 
Pyron, R. A., and J. J. Wiens. 2011. A large-scale phylogeny of Amphibia including over 2,800 species, and a revised classification of extant frogs, salamanders, and caecilians. Molecular Phylogenetics and Evolution 61:543–583.
[/url]

thanks, this one is a lot of help!
 
It's also a ToL project, so it is greatly at odds with other results. Take neither Pyron nor Frost as gospel, and look at other major revisions. The current 10 family caecilian organization is not included in either of the major papers above, and that's just one of many "adjustments" which should be considered. Frost's "Amphibian Species of the World" is also a great overview, and it gets updated in light of new data:
Amphibian Species of the World
 
"Amphibian Species of the World" is also a great overview, and it gets updated in light of new data:
Amphibian Species of the World

I am looking less at who gets put in a category than the relationships of those divisions. I may choose tailed cecilians since they are the most primative of those and thus most closely related to the caudates. Ideally if i could find a caudate that cannot regenerate it would be best. Another option-though limited-is to create knock out axolotls who cannot regenerate (though i doubt 1 gene is responsible for this), or multiple knock outs that then could have selected genes knocked back in until they regain the property.
 
I may choose tailed cecilians since they are the most primative of those and thus most closely related to the caudates.
In taxonomic and phylogenetic terms, that statement is logically...wrong. If an organism is more closely related to caudates than to caecilians, then it is by definition, not a caecilian. You're talking about symplesiomorphies, which are features shared by coincidental lack of change rather than by shared exclusive ancestry [synapomorphies]. In other words, all caecilians have a tailed ancestor, so the presence of a tail does not indicate a relationship with any outside group.

This particular example however, is a very bad one, as it is a subject of ongoing debate, doubt, and major differences. Most analyses place frogs closest to salamanders as closely related groups. Some, but few, studies place salamanders closer to caecilians than to frogs. A very few studies place salamanders and caecilians together and not related to frogs at all. Another small number of studies find salamanders and frogs together, but caecilians with a separate origin. This is a very problematic area, and a good example of the classification differences between living and fossil species. Many of the fossil classes/subclasses of amphibians are not mutual clades, but are actually nested within one another, with differing subgroups becoming dominant and distinct over time. Therein lies the Lissamphibia problem: do they all derive from a single ancestor within the aistopods or the broader temnospondyls, or do they derive from different groups of Temnospondyli, Aistopoda, or Lepospondyli? If they derive from different groups, they cannot logically be included in the same modern taxon together.

If that particular example is of special interest thought, just google "lissamphibia origins" and you'll find plenty of information. Regardless of origins and relationships, Ichthyophiidae is universally the most basal caecilian family, and all recent research identifies only a single genus Ichthyophis, with Caudacaecilia as a synonym.

Coming back to this...
I am looking less at who gets put in a category than the relationships of those divisions.
Content within the divisions affects relationships between them, and vice-versa. That's a major driving factor in recent revisions. Former "Colostethus" were members of multiple unrelated groups. Former concepts of Typhlonectidae and Scolecomorphidae were within the former Caeciliidae, which was corrected either by dividing the latter or synonymizing the former two. Former "Ranidae" was a massive group which should have included Mantellidae, Rhacophoridae, Hyperoliidae, Arthroleptidae, etc etc; former "Leptodactylidae" similarly should have included Hylidae, Dendrobatidae, Centrolenidae, and more. Relationships within these groups was precisely what forced them to be divided up to accurately reflect between-group relationships. Likewise for former "Pisces", "Reptilia", and possibly for Lissamphibia as well.

For your specific example regarding limb loss, I think you need to look at both other living taxa and the fossil record. Limb loss and reduction is exceedingly common within and between groups:
Skinks - occurs within genera, between genera, and between families
Geckos - occurs between families
Lizards in general - Dibamidae, Acontiidae, Pygopodidae, amphisbaenians, and snakes all obtained limblessness independently. In addition, elongation and limb reduction has been obtained in Gymnophthalmidae, Diploglossidae, Anguidae, Anniellidae, Lanthanotus, Lerista, Scincidae, Lygosomidae, Sphenomorphidae, Cordylidae, Gerrhosauridae. Some living amphisbaenians have functional limbs, some living snakes have limb remnants, and there are fossil snakes with legs.
Whales - living taxa have greatly reduced hing limbs, while fossil taxa have differing degrees of limb development and body elongation.
Salamanders - Sirenidae have no hind limbs; Amphiumidae have reduced all limbs
Caecilians - at least one fossil has limbs
Stem amphibians - many examples of elongate and limb-reduced species.

Limb loss, elongation, and features generally related to neoteny/paedomorphosis have long been problems for classification, as they are frequently derived independantly due to evolutionary pressures, rather than being due to shared ancestry.
 
General chit-chat
Help Users
  • No one is chatting at the moment.
    There are no messages in the chat. Be the first one to say Hi!
    Back
    Top