Regional variations in T. marmoratus

[rubén]

Contributing to my "obsession" for this species, some regional variations of marmoratus...

T. marmoratus from Salamanca ( 900 m. )

From Valladolid ( 760 m. )

From Burgos ( 900 m. )

From Madrid ( 2.140 m. )

From La Coruña ( 120 m. )

From Burgos: Detail of the belly

From Valladolid: Detail of the belly

From Madrid: Detail of the belly

Would be appreciated contributions to this topic... comments or photographs.

 

[terry]

Hey Rubén!

Thanks for the wonderful variations of marmoratus from different regions of Spain! From the examination of the belly, my only male marmoratus looks like the individual from Madrid. If only there was a side shot to see the cranial structure as well. It is also surprising to see the pale belly of the Valladolid specimen.

 

[TJ]

Excellent contribution, Rubén!

Marbled newts in Madrid? Well, I guess if we can still find pockets of Cynops pyrrhogaster in Tokyo (though not in the city proper!), then why not T. marmoratus in the Spanish capital

That belly pattern on the one from Madrid is spectacular!

 

[rubén]

Hi Tim...

Excuse guys

I forgot to mention it... over each photograph is written the altitude of the place where the newts were found. Obviously, in Madrid city there are no marbled newts

. I meant Madrid province... exactly the southern limit known, between Madrid and Segovia, in a high mountain place ( take a look in photo gallery )

Triturus pygmaeus occurs this mountains until 1.400 m. in the southern slopes, and marmoratus reach 2.140 m in the northern. Few km. separates both populations...

 

[mark]

Great shots Ruben. Do they regularly live above the winter snow line?

My group look identical to the Salamanca specimen in the first photo. Dark black bellies with small white spots. Most of their green markings attached to the orange dorsal stripe and little or no green on the flanks.

After seeing your recent posts in the photo section a £49 return flight from Bristol to Madrid in the spring is looking tempting...

 

[william]

so far mine are looking more like Valladolid, but the belly patter doesn't match, mine have a more uniform colour with white spots. Also the black on the back is very black. But i've no idea.

do you have any photos of French specimens?

 

[rubén]

Will_ french marms as I have seen, are smaller and more green sometimes.

Mark_ T. marmoratus lives from the sea level in the northern coast until 2.140 m. in the central mountains. But, excepting the northern coast ( with a different weather ) in Spain the distribution seems to be coincident with the extension of the Supramediterranean and Oromediterranean bioclimatic area ( 900 - 1.600 ), reaching sometimes the Mesomediterranean ( below 900 m. ) and the Subalpine area ( until 2.140 m. ) but, is more abundant mainly between 800/1400 m.

In all these different kinds of biotopes marmoratus populations are often, isolated and I found important differences regarding colour and morphology. The most obvious, mainly, is between the marmoratus from 2.140 m. ( huge, very robust and dark ) and those from the sea level ( delicate, with a copper colour ).

£49 is, certainly, a chance for coming here

( let me know )

 

[terry]

Are montane forms larger than the forms around sea-level? Good air, better environments. Sounds similar to habitats I know in Malaysia where everything is larger than anything at sea-level.
This is something new to me in regards to T.marmoratus. I am curious what kind of variation T.pygmaeus could have!

That means you will have to go

soon!

 

[ambys]

Another photo for you:


T. marmoratus from Navarra (Spain)

and this is the female:

 

[rodrigo]

Wow...
I´m from Burgos and have never seen a wild marm...i swear i´ve searched.....but no luck...i´ve seen helveticus, and even alpestris but never a marm.
I think the Salamanca one is the prettiest one...i´ll have to go for a walk some day and find some(i now live in salamanca).

 

[meghan]

Stunning, Ruben! Thank you for the pictures. I find this species my favorite as well...

 

[rubén]

Thanks guys...

hope to post soon more shots of morphological and colour variations of this species and T. pygmaeus too.

 

[coen]

This should be on the Caudata Culture species information, if all photographers agree. If we broaden this information, people should be able to recall where their marms originated from, something I would like to know for sure.

Mine look mostly like Burgos, but with less white specles on the belly

 

[rodrigo]

It would be really interesting if you post variations of pygmaeus. As far as i know at least the Doñana populations are about the size of an helveticus. They sure vary a lot between locations.

Doñana´s newts seem to be another world....a woman that worked there told me that boscais from there were absolutely tiny, about half the size of an adult normal female. I think it´s defnitely interesting...

 

[rubén]

I have seen pygmaeus from Huelva( Sierra Morena ) and it was "normal" pygmaeus, like those of my photographs in Ávila.

The "Doñana dwarf form" lives in temporary ponds surrounding the Doñana Park, but there are other locations with small varieties of pygmaeus, like Cáceres, Mérida...

 

[rodrigo]

i didn´t know that...when that woman showed pics of the dwarf pygmaeus i just couldn´t believe my eyes...
If you happen to have any pic of them (whichever locality) please post them...i need to see them again, they looked so frikin cute...