Sheen-less C.e.e ?

[Yahilles]

In October i obtained a pair of (at least i was told so) adult Cynops ensicauda ensicauda. As my previous pair is probably siblings, i didn't want to breed them together again, so i mixed the 4 newts:
my male and new female
my female and the new male
Each pair lives in separate planted aquarium, under almost identical conditions.
At the beginning of January (temperatures like 15-18'C), after lots of courting, i got eggs from the female i kept with the new male- they should be hatching next few days. The thing that scares me a little is the fact, that this male has no sign of tail sheen. Is this possible for ensicauda males to never develop it?
In 2nd tank, my male has already developed the tail sheen as last year and i saw him fanning several times, but in this case, the new female isn't laying anything.
Is this possible that i got a popei pair? I hope not... photos:
Female:

Male:

What do you think?

 

[eljorgo]

I had good popei. Compare yours with my pics at my profile. You´ll see you have 100% certainly C.e.e. If it doenst have tail sheen it donest automaticly makes it a popei. Its normal for some individuals to have simply, other genes and some of them will cause them to dont develop tail sheen. Its impossible for them to be popei, I mean having zero tail sheen and red paterns in torso makes them no popei at all. Non-sense.
Cheers,
J.

 

[Joost]

AW: Sheen-less C.e.e ?

I really like your close-up pics, but now it's too close

Can you make a another pic? For now, the male looks to be a popei.

 

[Azhael]

I agree the first animal could be popei. I don´t suposse you could find out their origin, could you? It´s a long shot but worth trying.

 

[Yahilles]

I recieved them from a friend from Netherlands, and he got them for me from someone i don't know, then no way to tell the data locality i think.
I'll try to take better picture, at the moment that's the only "better" one:

 

[Joost]

Can you tell who you got them from? There aren't that much C. e. e. breeders in the Netherlands, so maybe it is possible to find out their origin.

 

[Yahilles]

Thanks to Joost i found that these newts are, sadly, popei.
That was the final straw - i give up with this species. Too hard to get C.e.e, and their beauty isn't enough to redress their shy-ness and rest of these problems. I'm going to get rid of both popei and ensicauda (i'm looking for somebody already keeping C.e.e as my pair is related to eachother and i don't want them to inbreed again). I'll try with cyanurus if i manage to get them.
I put the hybrid eggs in one pondtype tank, with such concentration i will leave them to be, if any of them will be strong enough to survive, i will keep the morphs but not send them to anybody. I couldn't just throw away these eggs... i know these hybrids can't enter the trade or they will "pollute" the bloodlines, but it's still my success with breeding the swordtails, so i keep them- for myself.
Today i saw the first hybrid larva hatched.