T. asperrimus (amended from "T. wenxianensis?")

[TJ]

I'm guessing this is T. wenxianensis, though its size doesn't jibe with the size range for T. wenxianensis that I've seen before. Whatever it is, it's huge at an astounding 23 cm.

<font size="-2">(photographed in pet shop)</font>

It's evidently ill -- and the others that were with it are even sicker. I know nothing else about it (sex, origin, import route, etc.)

(Message edited by TJ on May 21, 2005)

 

[TJ]

<font size="-2">(photographed in pet shop)</font>

(Message edited by TJ on May 21, 2005)

 

[carlos]

Hi Tim, I think this is a Tylototriton asperrimus, the T.wenxianensis doesn't have the sharp and big 14-16 knobby on it's body

Tim, what problem did they have??? Heat Stress???

 

[TJ]

Thanks for that input, Carlos.

What do your documents say about how big T. asperrimus get? I recall we had some discussion here last year about how to differentiate these two species, but I can't recall the conclusion arrived at, if there ever was one

Well, the last time I saw T. asperrimus or T. wenxianensis come in, they were pretty much like this, skinny and sickly. These must be put through some really harsh treatment before they end up at the retailers. Sad to think how many must die even before even reaching shops.

As for the kind of sickness, from what I'm told it involves parts of the body becoming sticky (perhaps like can be seen on the tail of the one pictured above) and also the skin seems to "melt off" in keloids. Sad...

 

[wouter]

I think that this is a T. asperrimus too. The T. wenxianensis Mark Bakkers and I kept (photos are on Caudata Culture) where fairly similar to the description of T. asperrimus pingwuensis, witch is a synonym for T. wenxianensis so we assume that we were dealing with that species;

This subspecies differs from the nominate subspecies in:
1. Warts on the flank irregular, with no distinct demarcation line between each other
2. Distance between the nostrils shorter than from the snout to the eye
3. Periphery of the anus dark-brown
4. Ventral surface rough with numerous warts

The most important differences from my view are that the T. wenxianensis in the pet trade don't have any dorso-lateral warts, and a really flat head. T. asperrimus does have dorso-lateral warts and quite a different skull structure.

Some photos of my preserved T. wenxianensis;

(Message edited by TJ on May 21, 2005)

 

[TJ]

Very interesting, Wouter. Thanks for those clarifications!

I'm also very impressed that you have preserved your salamander.

Yes, I can see now how the skull structure is indeed different:

<font size="-2">(photographed in pet shop)</font>

(Message edited by TJ on May 21, 2005)

 

[TJ]

Another:

<font size="-2">(photographed in pet shop)</font>

(Message edited by TJ on May 21, 2005)

 

[TJ]

As you may have noticed, that last one has an open lesion in the middle of its head.

Here is a relatively small one with a lesion at the base of its tail:

<font size="-2">(photographed in pet shop)</font>

(Message edited by TJ on May 21, 2005)

 

[TJ]

A particularly severe case:

<font size="-2">(photographed in pet shop)</font>

(Message edited by TJ on May 21, 2005)

 

[wouter]

Tim, thanks for the photos, I really enjoy seeing more of this species for a change! Another difference I noticed from your photos is that the color of the toes of these animals is deep red. The toes of my wenxianensis where orange colored. It’s a shame to see them in this condition though.

Here’s a picture from Bourret 1942. Les Batrachians de L'Indochine. Gouvernment general de L'Indochine, Hanoi, Vietnam. The title under the picture says that it’s from the original species description of T. asperrimus. Does look a lot like the animals on your photos!

 

[TJ]

Interesting info, Wouter

Still, the toe color seems to vary a bit between different individuals:

 

[TJ]

I strikes me that this salamander could have been the model for this ornament I bought when I used to live in northern Vietnam, though the ridge knobs are missing...