T. dobrogicus macrosomus Courtship/Breeding/photos

Neotenic_Jaymes

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These newts are likely to be my favorite Crested Newt species. 3 months in a cooling period and this is what happens. I gave them heavy feedings that interrupted the male in his aim to court the female. Actively stalking the female I wonder how much time and how much energy does the male exert? I've noticed that the males' crest is starting to diminish after just reaching prime mating dress. I'm sure its due to constant tail fanning and and aggressive movement. Well here's the photo evidence, enjoy!
 

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Azhael

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Looking good! I too love this species, it´s was always one of my Top 5 xD
My males only kept the crests at full potential for a short time of about a week. Then one of them quickly reabsorved half of it and now has a small crest. The other one also shrunk a bit but is still looking good. I´m thinking it may have been the weather changes. Anyway, yours look gorgeous!

There´s just one thing about this species that is not perfect :p, their bloody minded agression against each other. Most of the time it´s nothing, but if you allow them to go even slightly hungry (which doesn´t take much) they go berserk :S This year my males have had a couple of battle scars to show.

Thanx for sharing, great pics ;)
 

Neotenic_Jaymes

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Looking good! I too love this species, it´s was always one of my Top 5 xD
My males only kept the crests at full potential for a short time of about a week. Then one of them quickly reabsorved half of it and now has a small crest. The other one also shrunk a bit but is still looking good. I´m thinking it may have been the weather changes. Anyway, yours look gorgeous!

There´s just one thing about this species that is not perfect :p, their bloody minded agression against each other. Most of the time it´s nothing, but if you allow them to go even slightly hungry (which doesn´t take much) they go berserk :S This year my males have had a couple of battle scars to show.

Thanx for sharing, great pics ;)

Your right! They get so aggressive when slightly hungry! Got to be careful! By the way how big are yours? I haven't really discuss the size of these newts with other keepers. I know that they're supposed to be smaller the T. dobrogicus. Mine have stopped growing at about 5.5 inches.
 

Azhael

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Yeah, mine are about that size too. I take for granted that you keep T.d.dobrogicus too since the look is exactly the same as mine and they are also "smallish" when compared to other T.dobrogicus.
 

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wow ! stunning animals , thanks for sharing
they are my favorite species , no doubt , i got so many satisfaction from T. Dobrogicus.

I have big problem during feeding frenzy too , , 2 days ago one of my females had lost part of the tail during the frenzy ,
basicly i can't leave the worms in the acquarium...will be a massacre , instead , i use to hand feed them.
 

Neotenic_Jaymes

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wow ! stunning animals , thanks for sharing
they are my favorite species , no doubt , i got so many satisfaction from T. Dobrogicus.

I have big problem during feeding frenzy too , , 2 days ago one of my females had lost part of the tail during the frenzy ,
basicly i can't leave the worms in the acquarium...will be a massacre , instead , i use to hand feed them.

I think there are a couple species in the Triturus genus that are very aggressive frenzy feeders if not all of them. Currently I have a T. marm with a damaged tail, T. cristatus and T. artzeni missing 1/4 of their tails missing. I'm sure that I have sufficient space for them. They're just too aggressive at times. Maybe current living phase has something to do with it. Like breeding season, cool season and such.
 

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Jaymes, are you sure that your Triturus are dobrogicus macrosomus?
They look very much alike my T.d. dobrogicus. Azhael say the same about your newts.
I will search for you a good fenotipic description of the two subspecies. Just to be sure :happy:
Best regards
 

Neotenic_Jaymes

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Jaymes, are you sure that your Triturus are dobrogicus macrosomus?
They look very much alike my T.d. dobrogicus. Azhael say the same about your newts.
I will search for you a good fenotipic description of the two subspecies. Just to be sure :happy:
Best regards

From what I understood the major differences were size. All my other T. dobrogicus are much bigger in length and girth. It would be nice to have scientific resources as well. Thanx!
 

huug

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Hi Jay,

I knew as much about Macrosomus as you do.
They are supposed to be significantly smaller, but dont look much diffrent from the nominate form. Allso i heared several keepers of T.d. macrosomus say, the crest is slightly higher.

Any scientific informarion, Tudor, is very welcome on my part too!

Macrosomus or not, they are great lookers, Jay!
 

Azhael

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I must say i´ve always heard the opposite. It was discussed in another thread somewhere.
The name "macrosoma" means "big body" which i very much doubt would be the name given to the smaller subspecies, hehe. I´ve always heard of macrosoma being the largest ones, which to me always made sense since this subespecies is supossed to on occassion have an extra vertebra. Contrary to you, Huug, i was told T.d.dobrogicus achieves higher relative crests.

Either the information is all wrong, or many people out there are keeping missidentified dobrogicus.
 

huug

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Well,...what you are saying sounds kinda logical!
I am curious what any scientific info will tell us,....

So Tudor.... :)
 

Tudor

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Sorry guys,
I was busy last two days.
I will post all I promise in a couple of hours.
 

huug

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Great!! :D
I´ll be waiting in front of my pc!! :p
 

Tudor

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Sorry again :( I was out in the field.
So this is what I found:
The main paper for intraspecific taxonomy of the Danube crested newt is:
Litvinchuk, S.N. and Borkin, L. 2000. Intraspecific taxonomy and nomenclature of the Danube crested newt, Triturus dobrogicus. Amphibia-Reptilia 21: 419-430.
I try to download the paper from the Amphibia-Reptilia website, but for an unknown reason, the site do not recognize my IP anymore :confused::mad:
Another good paper is "Genetic structure of the Triturus cristatus complex in central Europe" the PhD thesis of Aleš Horák.
This one is attached. I highlighted some affirmations and reference in text.
Hope to be useful for you guys. Meanwhile, I will try to download Litvinchuk paper tomorow from the university.
Best wishes
 

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Tudor

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And here's the Litvinchuk & Borkin paper regarding Triturus dobrogicus intraspecific taxonomy :happy:
Again, sorry guys for take me so long.
So, If I understand well, doesn't mater which is which. The real mater is the locality, area etc from your newts are.
I'm digging for Arntzen and Wallis, 1989 now :happy:

Best regards
 

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Neotenic_Jaymes

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Looking good! I too love this species, it´s was always one of my Top 5 xD
My males only kept the crests at full potential for a short time of about a week. Then one of them quickly reabsorved half of it and now has a small crest. The other one also shrunk a bit but is still looking good. I´m thinking it may have been the weather changes. Anyway, yours look gorgeous!

There´s just one thing about this species that is not perfect :p, their bloody minded agression against each other. Most of the time it´s nothing, but if you allow them to go even slightly hungry (which doesn´t take much) they go berserk :S This year my males have had a couple of battle scars to show.

Thanx for sharing, great pics ;)

Aggression seems to be a strong personality trait. This is what I saw today. A female engulfing a males' head. I removed them from their tank and she still wouldn't let go. I had to remove her off him by force. When I get them separated I notice the male had a piece of worm still in his mouth unwilling to let go. They both wouldn't let go!
 

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pezzatos

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What's the difference between T.d.dobrogicus and T.d.macrosomus?
Thank you all!
 

pezzatos

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Oooops! I didn't see the pubblication!!! sorry!!! :eek:
 
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