Tank not cycling

[LittleRedPanda]

Hello all
I have a 130L tank (though it's probably only at 110l, between air gap and substrate) and it doesn't appear to be cycling
I got it about three weeks ago, set it all up (including a fun full day of rinsing the iron sand over and over and over and over) and let it loose.
I got my local aquarium supplier to run my filter through his tank for a few days while I set everything else up, and then, confident that between the filter medium, Prime, and Stability, I went out and brought home my pair of Axolotls.

And now, two weeks later, I'm still seeing Ammonia at 0.5ppm Nitrates and Nitrites at 0
tank is running at 18 degrees, and the pH appears to be between 7.4 and 7.6 (regular pH shows max of 7.6, high pH shows minimum of 7.4)

I've been doing frequent water changes to keep the ammonia down, I've run through my entire bottle of Stability (and the other day picked up the competing "Establish")
and the only thing I can think of that's causing this is maybe I'm overdosing on Prime (which is to say, I'm almost certainly dosing more than the baseline, but I figured better safe than sorry if the ammonia isn't cycling yet)

Am I doing anything wrong? Am I just impatient? My Axies are doing well enough, though Pancake has some gill curling it's not severe. It's just making my nervous because I don't wanna hurt my babies.

 

[Genny]

Are you removing excess poop and food? It does take a good while to cycle a tank. We're talking a couple of months in reality. If you're doing water changes too frequently and with too much volume, you're only going to take out your good bacteria anyway. You'e got to give it time to colonise to your substrate, filter medium and rocks. I wouldn't recommend ever overdosing any water additives, but that's just me, I feel labels are there for a reason. You may also find if your filter flow is too strong, that's what's causing the gill curling.

 

[LittleRedPanda]

Ok, I shall try to be patient, but the complete lack of any sign of nitrate or nitrite after three weeks is bothering me.
How quickly can I reasonably expect to be able to manually cycle the tank if I fridge the axxies and crank the temperature up into more optimal zones? I'd rather not pull them from the tank now that they're acclimatising to it so well, but I don't want to hurt them either so if that's the safer option I will be considering doing so in a week or so once work dies down a bit.

Yes, I've been clearing excess poop and food where I find it, and I think I'm doing a good job on the poop, not 100% on the food though. The girls are messy eaters, and while they scavenge the leftovers pretty well, I occasionally find some caught in the cracks of the rock or log hide, and there's an awkward dead zone within the skull that I clean occasionally but not as vigourously as the other areas.

I performed pretty frequent water changes for the first week or so of the tank, as I was advised to do so. They were generally 40% changes every day or two. Since then, the water changes have been when the ammonia levels hit 1.00ppm (or 0.75 if I'm likely to have a long day at work and may not be there to clear otherwise) though those are generally bigger changes (at 1ppm I've generally been doing about a 60% change or so.) I'm trying to keep the ammonia below 1ppm.

My filter is pretty gentle but I am moving to a sponge filter once it arrives. I'll have to move to a canister in a few months because I will need a chiller for summer so the poor dears don't melt. I will have to figure out how best to diffuse that one for sure, but for now I don't think it's a particularly strong flow.

Anyway, during todays water change (a big one as it hit 1ppm overnight) I noticed this growth on one of the rocks. I assume this is something I want to remove and that it's probably contributing ammonia, but I wanted to be certain that it's not a beneficial thing or a product of the bacterial cycle before I did so, I'm trying not to assume knowledge I don't have here.

Should I be yanking this or should I let it be?

 

[Genny]

That almost looks like this low light brown hair algae that I had in my tank. It caused a bit of a spike in parameters. First I siphoned off most of the looser bits, then I just took the rocks out and scrubbed them under some tank water in a bucket. Afterwards I rinsed all the filter bits and wiped down the sides with a scourer. It hasn't come back since, but it was a low light thriving one, so I also had the UV bar on for about a day with my babies in a different tank so they didn't get upset from the bright light.

Were I you, I would try to find the exact algae to see if it's a beneficial species, but in the past, I've rarely found duller species to be so. It's worth a google though if you have the time.

The issue I'm having with your method is that the first culture of bacteria is always in the water and it takes several months for it to colonise tank features properly. So if you're removing such huge doses of water each time, you're only getting rid of the bacteria you so desperately need

If you've got a gentle filter that's good, but when you move to the foam one, keep all the medium from your old filter in your tank. Inside the new filter or out if it doesn't fit, but you've got to keep those cultures going for a couple months while your changeover happens.

Generally within 3-4 weeks of cycling a tank you'd start to see some change in the levels of ammonia, nitrites and nitrates, but that's just the start of the culture. Some Axi's are particularly hardy and will weather the middle of a cycle well, but some are more sensitive, it really depends on the animal. That being said, you should always try in the future to keep water from your old tank (obviously, always still do your weekly or bi-weekly small water changes) when moving them and preserve cultures on any ornaments, substrates or filters that you've got (but keep them wet). This way you'll never have to start a cycle from scratch again.

I'm sorry I couldn't be of more service, but it's really a waiting game from here on out.

 

[LittleRedPanda]

Ok thanks for the advice.

So, how can I keep the levels safe without either doing water changes or dosing the tank with prime to keep levels safe?
doing smaller, more frequent water changes doesn't seem like it'd be any real help, as, if my goal is to drop ammonia percentage then surely however much adjustments are required to reduce that ammonia would also reduce the waterborne bacteria by the same quantity? Smaller more frequent water changes would by maths, require more water changes since I'd be diluting the remaining water and need to remove more water to reduce the ammonia by the same amount. I'm doing pretty sizable changes every two or three days at this point (as of now, 24 hours after the previous water change the ammonia is back to around .5ppm) so frequenter changes would stress them out even more

 

[Genny]

The goal with the smaller water changes (and we're not talking more frequently like every few hours, or even every day) is to reduce the ammonia, not eliminate it. Simply because you're removing all of that good bacteria that's in the water and not allowing it time to colonise on objects. Cycling your tank by removing so much water all the time is likely going to take twice as long. So rather than 3 months for a full complete cycle, we're talking 6 and rather than 3-4 weeks to start to see changes, we're talking 6-8. Don't get me wrong, if that's what you want to do, it's up to you entirely. I can only offer my advice, sorry You can keep up the dosing with Prime, by all means though!

Sorry I can't be of more help, I can understand this is aggravating for you, but it's going to require dedication and patience whichever route you choose to go down.

In the past when I've needed to speed up a cycle a little, I've brought in water, ornaments, big rocks and even filter medium from my other fish tank that has my plec and freshwater's in. It's a risky business, because there's always a chance of bringing in parasites, but it's always worked for me (none of my fish have ever been sick). I'm not saying it's what you should do, by any means. I'm just trying to point out the value of allowing bacteria to colonise on things. It's invaluable in the long run.

You'll need to do regular water changes in the future anyway to help get rid of nitrates, so it's not like you're doing anything obscenely wrong. Though those changes are usually weekly/bi-weekly and are small for me (10-20% depending on levels).

 

[LittleRedPanda]

Ok, but yesterday, I was at 1PPM, so I did a 60% water change, with the intent to then just do daily 20% changes and keep the level down.
24 hours later, I'm back at 1PPM. If I only do 10-20% water changes daily, the ammonia will keep rising. 20% isn't going to keep it in safe levels for long if at all. If it rises by the same rate by tomorrow, they'll be if not at, getting darn close to 2PPM.
At that rate, how many days till my girls are dead? I don't imagine they'll survive the however-many-remaining weeks before I start to see results.
I don't have any other aquariums to donate water, that's why I got my local supplier to run the filter for a few days to get it started, that doesn't seem to have helped much. I've given them twice as long dosing using bacteria in a bottle, and it's still not seeming to help much. Today is 4 weeks since I brought them home.

I'm not aggravated, I'm terrified that my girls are going to die. I have been having actual nightmares that I'll wake up and they'll be dead. Yesterday, the usually more active one was lethargic and I freaked out, I think she's doing better after she calmed down from the water change, but she's still not been her usual cheerful self. I am scared. I am very close to buying a bar fridge and keeping them in that and trying to manually cycle the tank, but honestly, I'm not convinced I'll get that right either. Maybe I just need to take my girls back to the pet shop. It'll be heartbreaking, I love them so much, but it'd be better than one or both of them dying on me.

 

[Genny]

I'm so sorry you feel so bad. I know how awful it can be to wake up from dreams like that.

In my experience it takes several weeks to get a tank up and running, and that's with small (10% or so) partial water changes every week/two weeks. I wouldn't want you to be without your girls.

My tank decided to leak all over the floor (a recurring nightmare that's come true twice for me!) at about 4am. I put Claptrap and Lonestar in separate buckets (big ones from a hardware store) with a split line from an air pump and two tiny airstones. It's not the best method, but I changed their water daily by 100% to avoid any buildup. They stayed like this for 2 and a half weeks while the new tank was cycling. They weren't stressed in the slightest, no gill curling, no tail curling. They'd also still eat their regular meals. If your girls aren't too big yet, you could even keep them in a small aquarium on the side together and do large water changes with them as opposed to buckets. It might be something to think about as it would give your proper tank a bit more time to cycle.

I feel awful I can't help you any more than this advice I'm giving you