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Telling helveticus and vulgaris females apart

Herpo vulgaris

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Hi everyone,

About time I posted a thread myself and I have found something that seems interesting to me :).

When finding helveticus or vulgaris newts, it's generally pretty easy to tell males apart, but females can be something else, certainly if they occur in the same pool...

How I discern between the two:
helveticus females have a tiny tail filament and have pinkish throats (no spots)
vulgaris females lack the filament and their throats are similar in color as the belly (whitish and spots).

Although it is stated that the ventral streak is also a way to determine which species, yellow in helveticus and orange in vulgaris, in some populations this rule does not hold. If I remember correctly this was the case where both species occurred in one pool. Here, this ventral line color was practically the same color in both species. Also I have found juvenile helveticus with a brightly orange ventral stripe.

I was curious to find out what your thoughts are on this matter.


Cheers,

Gwij
 

Aplestris

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Hi
I find that female Palmate Newts have taller tails when aquatic but this may be a local trait as i have observed them myself aquatic at only one lake. They also to me have more distinct dark bands from near their snouts past their eyes. They are smaller but obviously younger L.vulgaris and older L.helveticus will be similar. And i have found that Palmate Newts have rougher skin especially when terrestrial. :)
 

caleb

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Ventral colour is not very helpful, as it's partly determined by diet.

Dorsal stripe is more useful- if a stripe is present in helveticus it will be equal intensity along the whole body; in vulgaris it will fade from head to tail. This is also the best way to distinguish juveniles.

Female helveticus also usually have two light-coloured tubercules on their rear feet, female vulgaris do not.


There are occasional newts that are difficult to identify, which have some of the characters but not others.
 

Herpo vulgaris

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Ah,

I see, so the ventral streak's color is (partially) determined by food intake (bèta-caroteens probably?), which makes sense if indeed the two species would (more or less) have the same ventral stripe color when they co-occur since they would be feeding on the same prey.

I didn't know about the dorsal stripe and tubercles, thanks for that one :)!
 
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