Toxins of eastern newts, Notophthalmus

FrogEyes

Active member
Joined
Sep 5, 2010
Messages
908
Reaction score
38
Points
28
Location
Southern Minnesota
Country
Canada

Azhael

Site Contributor
Joined
May 7, 2007
Messages
6,645
Reaction score
93
Points
0
Location
Burgos
Country
Spain
Display Name
Rodrigo
Thank you for sharing this, it was a very interesting read!
The suggestion that fish are an indirect cause of lower newt densities was a particularly interesting thought. If bullfrogs are not deterred by tetrodotoxin at all, as it seems, what could be the cause of toxicity from Taricha?
 

SludgeMunkey

New member
Joined
Nov 11, 2008
Messages
2,299
Reaction score
75
Points
0
Location
Bellevue, Nebraska
Country
United States
Display Name
Johnny O. Farnen
Thank you for sharing this, it was a very interesting read!
The suggestion that fish are an indirect cause of lower newt densities was a particularly interesting thought. If bullfrogs are not deterred by tetrodotoxin at all, as it seems, what could be the cause of toxicity from Taricha?

I too wonder about that given that bullfrogs do not survive tarichatox, but seem to be able to shrug of tetrodotox.
 

Azhael

Site Contributor
Joined
May 7, 2007
Messages
6,645
Reaction score
93
Points
0
Location
Burgos
Country
Spain
Display Name
Rodrigo
Doh..tarichatoxin, forgot about that....
 

orion

New member
Joined
Oct 22, 2011
Messages
5
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Country
United States
We do not have bullfrogs here yet where we have newts. The bullfrogs are not native.
WIKI
"In evolutionary theory, the relationship between the rough-skinned newt and the common garter snake is considered an example of co-evolution. The mutations in the snake’s genes that conferred resistance to the toxin have resulted in a selective pressure that favors newts which produce more potent levels of toxin. Increases in newt toxicity then apply a selective pressure favoring snakes with mutations conferring even greater resistance. This cycle of a predator and prey evolving to one another is sometimes termed an evolutionary arms race and has resulted in the newts producing levels of toxin far in excess of what is needed to kill any other conceivable predator."
 

Attachments

  • IMG_3662.jpg
    IMG_3662.jpg
    101.6 KB · Views: 5,179

Azhael

Site Contributor
Joined
May 7, 2007
Messages
6,645
Reaction score
93
Points
0
Location
Burgos
Country
Spain
Display Name
Rodrigo
I checked the distributions of the three species and saw that bullfrogs were present in most of Taricha granulosa country, i ignored the fact that that distribution was new and not the original one for the species. because there was no mention of it and you know, i´m not that familiar with american herps. It makes sense that they´d be vulnerable to Taricha toxins if their cohabitation is a recent event.
 

SludgeMunkey

New member
Joined
Nov 11, 2008
Messages
2,299
Reaction score
75
Points
0
Location
Bellevue, Nebraska
Country
United States
Display Name
Johnny O. Farnen
I checked the distributions of the three species and saw that bullfrogs were present in most of Taricha granulosa country, i ignored the fact that that distribution was new and not the original one for the species. because there was no mention of it and you know, i´m not that familiar with american herps. It makes sense that they´d be vulnerable to Taricha toxins if their cohabitation is a recent event.


Next to goldfish, bullfrogs are the most invasive species in our country, closely followed by housecats and English starlings. I suspect leopard frogs are on that list too given their use in the live bait trade and their prolific behaviors. I have been unable to find anything concrete on their toxin resistance.

This thread has me brushing up on bufotoxin as well. I am curious if there is and convergence with notos and taricha on this matter, given our more common species will eat anything that moves too.

(Yes, I refuse to use that "anaxyrus' or whatever they heck that dude decided to call american bufonidae now. If you need to make a point, don't go all generation X and throw in a "cool" looking word...)
 

orion

New member
Joined
Oct 22, 2011
Messages
5
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Country
United States
The bullfrogs are not here you are wrong the are out in the flats
 
General chit-chat
Help Users
  • No one is chatting at the moment.
  • Chat Bot:
    MelissaKenyon has left the room.
    +1
    Unlike
  • Chat Bot:
    MelissaKenyon has joined the room.
    +1
    Unlike
  • bearbear_13:
    I posted a thread about my axolotl if anyone is able to help me out!
    +1
    Unlike
  • bearbear_13:
    She’s not eating, her tail and gills have shrunk, she’s lot a lot of weight, and we’ve checked her water levels with no negative results
    +1
    Unlike
  • bearbear_13:
    ^ axie owner advised me to get some IAL, I’m working on sourcing some for my baby.
    +1
    Unlike
  • Chat Bot:
    wendtdale has left the room.
    +1
    Unlike
  • bearbear_13:
    Would fish medicine made from IAL be alright or are leaves more ideal?
    +2
    Unlike
  • Chat Bot:
    Dustinaguilar has left the room.
    +1
    Unlike
  • ChloeAnna:
    So, what sex do we think my lil Mew is?
    +1
    Unlike
  • ChloeAnna:
    I have no idea what I’m doing 🤦🏼‍♀️ I don’t know how to work this website 😅 sorry, ignore the last message 🤦🏼‍♀️
    +1
    Unlike
  • Chat Bot:
    liz. has joined the room.
    +1
    Unlike
  • Chat Bot:
    liz. has left the room.
    +1
    Unlike
  • blubford:
    man
    +1
    Unlike
  • blubford:
    i really want marbled newts but lately the expos have been cancled last minute because of dumb covid stuff
    +1
    Unlike
  • Ax0lot:
    Hey does anyone know why my axolotls mouth is stuck open? Been like that for a few weeks and when I tested water everything was fine
    +1
    Unlike
  • blubford:
    you should probably take it to the vet
    +1
    Unlike
  • blubford:
    so that dumb salamander state to state import bill didnt pass i take it right
    +1
    Unlike
  • blubford:
    havent heard news about it in a good while
    +1
    Unlike
  • wnorman293:
    Hi, how do you delete a post?
    +1
    Unlike
  • blubford:
    you dont
    +1
    Unlike
  • blubford:
    just kidding but i think there should be an option for it on your profile mabye
    +1
    Unlike
  • ipsoslolly:
    Hi guys my axolotl has not used his back legs since late Tuesday night,is this normal . He back half keeps floating up the way
    +1
    Unlike
  • blubford:
    that doesnt sound good
    +1
    Unlike
  • bearbear_13:
    Is it normal for my axie to eat every day? He’s overly hungry 😛
    +1
    Unlike
  • Dr. Phil:
    I'm new here but do I detect a bit of sarcasm in these comments? Ya'll sound like a fine bunch to me!
    +1
    Unlike
    Dr. Phil: I'm new here but do I detect a bit of sarcasm in these comments? Ya'll sound like a fine bunch... +1
    Top