Triturus arntzeni

huug

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Since there doesn´t seem to be much photo-material online on Triturus arntzeni i will post some pics here. I have 1 male and 2 females, at the moment i am raising 5 larvae to.

Notice on some pics how you can see the silverygray coloration of the male, with the beautifull black dots and the marbled speckles on the back. I love this species! :D

Just a few days ago (15th) i put a male and female in an aquatic setup.
I will post pics every know and then to let you see how the newts develop from a dull terrestrial coloration to the aquatic looks! With the best pics in spring ofcourse. :)

As a starter, a pic of the first day in a aquatic set up!
Allso some pics of the newts now,5 days later, and a "nearmorph" and a larvae.
 

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  • arntzeni male first day in water after terrestrial period, 15 sept 09.JPG
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  • Tritrurus arntzeni female, 5 days after being put in an aquartic setup sept19th 2009 (2).jpg
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  • Tritrurus arntzeni male, 5 days after being put in an aquartic setup sept19th 2009 (3).jpg
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  • Tritrurus arntzeni pair, 5 days after being put in an aquartic setup sept19th 2009.jpg
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  • Triturus arntzeni larvae near morphing, getting the adult spot already!.jpg
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  • Triturus arntzeni larvae near morphing, getting the adult spot already! (2).jpg
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  • Triturus arntzeni Larvae.jpg
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wonderful newts congrats, cant wait to see them in full breeding dress
thanks for posting the picture
 

tindalos

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Beautiful animals. Looking forward to see the development.
 

huug

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The crest is now slightly bigger after 10 days, bit no big difference yet!
Still,..i like the pics cause of the light, they are brighter and you can see the colors better, than you can in the former pics,..so i thought i just add them here!!:rolleyes:
 

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  • Male Triturus arntzeni 26 sept 2009 (15).jpg
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  • Male Triturus arntzeni 26 sept 2009 (8).jpg
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  • Male Triturus arntzeni 26 sept 2009 (13).jpg
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stavroske

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The crest is now slightly bigger after 10 days, bit no big difference yet!
Still,..i like the pics cause of the light, they are brighter and you can see the colors better, than you can in the former pics,..so i thought i just add them here!!:rolleyes:

Nice Huug! Looking forward to see the development!

Regards, Steven
 

huug

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Here is an update on the male developing its crest! ;)
 

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  • Triturus arntzeni male 31 oct 2009.JPG
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  • Triturus arntzeni male 31 oct 2009 (2).JPG
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uwe

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Look pretty close to Tr.karelinii.

What is the official status of the species?

Uwe
 

Azhael

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As far as i know, it´s not recognized as a species of its own. I´m quite surprised to see that instead of being considered a subspecies of T.karelinii, some people are giving it species status....i would like to know why (i´m curious as to wether it´s a mistake, a personal decission or if the change has been made official and i missed it).
 

Greatwtehunter

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It used to be considered a subspecies of Triturus karelinii but as of May 2009 (I think it was May) it was elevated to species status.
 

Greatwtehunter

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Is there any literature to this staement?

Uwe

If you can get a hold of this paper it will show you how it achieved full species status.

Multiple nuclear and mitochondrial genes resolve the branching orderof a rapid radiation of crested newts (Triturus, Salamandridae)G. Espregueira Themudo, B. Wielstra, J.W. Arntzen Molecular Phylogenetics and Evolution 52 (2009) 321–328
 

eldaldo

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I find taxonomy quite funny. every new technology that comes out, allows us to make the definition of a species more and more specific; thus totally redefining every part of our current taxonomic data, and restructuring phylogenetic trees, etc. When it really comes down to it, who's to say what the definition of a species over a subspecies is? it seems to me, that the distinction between the two is nebulous at best, and at some point, is it that important?

I remember having a semi firm grasp on taxonomy until I took botany classes where with hybridization and things like that, in many cases, species and subspecies distinctions of a plant are useless. It taught me that you have to be open minded about these things. What is the more interesting science? arguing over whether something is a species or subspecies? or studying things that are truly unknown? I understand that alot of these species redefinition papers are really looking at evolutionary backgrounds, and the redefinition is only a minor result of the findings. But still, does anyone else find these constant classifications annoying? hopefully genetics is as specific as we can get in terms of species analysis, and this is the last reclassification there will ever be . . .

Sorry, I don't mean to hijack the thread with off topic ranting. I really just wanted to agree with Azhael and say, these look remarkably similar to T. karelinii.
 

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Got the literature from Hugo (thank you).

It seems convincing. I hope we get some inside views at the next Gersfeld meetings.

See you

Uwe
 

huug

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Hey Everyone!

As i promised earlier, last year, here is the update on how an adult Triturus Arntzeni male looks like!

I love the species,...
 

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Wow what a huge crest , very nice animal
thanks for the update
 

stavroske

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I find taxonomy quite funny. every new technology that comes out, allows us to make the definition of a species more and more specific; thus totally redefining every part of our current taxonomic data, and restructuring phylogenetic trees, etc. When it really comes down to it, who's to say what the definition of a species over a subspecies is? it seems to me, that the distinction between the two is nebulous at best, and at some point, is it that important?

I remember having a semi firm grasp on taxonomy until I took botany classes where with hybridization and things like that, in many cases, species and subspecies distinctions of a plant are useless. It taught me that you have to be open minded about these things. What is the more interesting science? arguing over whether something is a species or subspecies? or studying things that are truly unknown? I understand that alot of these species redefinition papers are really looking at evolutionary backgrounds, and the redefinition is only a minor result of the findings. But still, does anyone else find these constant classifications annoying? hopefully genetics is as specific as we can get in terms of species analysis, and this is the last reclassification there will ever be . . .

Sorry, I don't mean to hijack the thread with off topic ranting. I really just wanted to agree with Azhael and say, these look remarkably similar to T. karelinii.



Actually I think both studies are very important. The real unknown things AND the studie of species. When they become a differend species in science, it will make it much easier to keep them separated. Some people buy a species without knowing the real findingplace, afterwards they buy the "same" species but from a total differend location and put them together in a tank, without knowing that they have 2 totally differend genes (other subspecies). Making species from subspecies will eventually avoid mixing genes...


Very Nice male Huug, thanks for posting!
 

uwe

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You made the point Stavroske.

If you get hands on animals with place of origin this is invaluable and you have to keep them separate.

With this precaution your breeding and observing becomes also scientifically relevant.

For example I keep my self two groups of T.karelinii, one from the "russian market" the other with exact place of origin. In the movemnet which is momentarily going on in karelinii/Kammmolchgroup this might get exciting.

Uwe
 
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