"Tylototriton" andersoni in the States

[david]

I see Mark Lucas is selling "Tylototriton" andersoni on Kingsnake. I assume he means Enchinotriton. Apparently the Asian imports are going to continue for a while.

(Message edited by dln on July 17, 2004)

 

[michael]

He sold out. Hopefully somebody got them that will breed them.

 

[paris]

did you ask him if he sold out? i wrote him and he hasnt replied yet

 

[michael]

He told me sold out at 9:00a.m. Monday.

 

[david]

And the invasion continues. Now I'm hearing T. wenxianensis or taliangensis are around. They may be the same animals as the "andersoni", just bad identification. Most of these people aren't into salamanders and newts.

 

[paris]

hey if you have leads i can try to obtain some $$ from other sources (ok...ebay...) keep me posted - i am most worried about the post from the vet who had his batch of females die after deworming -im going to post to see if there is another idea how to worm them. it is best for serious hobbiests to get them out of the hands of the dealers EARLY before they are exposed to worse and worse condItions and possible additional pathogens. it is so touch and go to get some stuff into america -and if all that arrives dies or gets sold to multiple locations and is thus fragmented (and still might die) then the possibility of captive breeding is lost -perhaps for the long run (since some species appear on the pet trade in 5-10 year cycles) many will look down on this but there will be no chance of cb specimens in the US if this opportunity is passed up.

 

[edward]

Often the conditions on imported species are better here than at the collectors, the "middle men", or the exporters overseas.

Paris a better estimate of the cycle may be 10-20 years (the last time I remember any real numbers of animals coming out of China was circa 1990). Many countries open close on this schedule.
Ed

 

[david]

This is one of the new animals going around (unfortunately arrived dead).

 

[paris]

the weight looks ok for a new import -any idea what it died of (overheating..etc)

 

[mark]

Looks like T.asperrimus or T.wenxianensis or T.taliangensis.

(Message edited by Mark_uk on July 22, 2004)

 

[greg]

perhaps a depressing thought to folks, but given that everyone here agrees that these guys come into the U.S. rarely and are rarely in collections alive, imagine how rarely they are in museum collections. In many cases, we cannot get collecting permits for where these animals are native due to all kinds of political issues. It would be ideal if we could (fewer specimens collected, and they'd have locality data), but we cannot. So, for most of these taxa we are reliant upon the exotic pet import trade.

So... what I am wondering is this: what do folks do with their rarely imported salamanders when they die? A loss on one side of this coin could be at least lessened if the specimen could be made available to researchers via a museum.

 

[david]

Looks like T. wenxianensis, from what I've seen in pictures.
http://www.livingunderworld.org/gallery/photos/caudata/salamandridae/tylototriton/wenxianensis
Best guess on reason for death is just stress. They're coming from Florida from a dealer that mostly keeps reptiles, so I assume temps are high. After first inspection, they seem pretty good overall. One has a chin rub, a few have missing fingers or missing part of a hand. The injuries look like shipping accidents and there doesn't appear to be any rot or dead tissue around the injuries. A few could stand to put on a little weight. They appear to want to be semi-aquatic, judging from the facts that they were crowded in a couple of water bowl this morning, and the tail fin looks like it's good for swimming. We shall see.

 

[david]

Any museum in particular that you can think of that would like them Greg?

 

[paris]

i pretty much keep all my dead stuff -sometimes i freeze them sometimes i dry them out and put them in a brown paper bag with sex, age(if known) and specie on the outside -then those bags are filed in a box--i dread a visit from the health department.....

 

[edward]

I agree that does not fit my memory of E. andersoni when I saw them at the Cincinnatti Zoo.

Ed

 

[ira]

i hope someone starts producing those t. wenxianensis as CB, i would love to keep a few of them.

 

[greg]

David,

I can think of at least one museum. e-mail me.

greg

 

[greg]

Paris,

It's cool that you keep the specimens and with data such as that. Some of your specimens may be the only such curated specimens in the U.S. and may be very useful to folks doing studies in molecular systematics, ontogeny, morphological systematics, etc. But if they are in lunch bags in you closet (or wherever you actually store them... out of the Board of Health's view..

)... nobody but you knows about them. it's like having a missing Monet in your attic.

True, with locality data they'd be more valuable... but even without such data they are important.
Greg

 

[travis]

So have any live specimens surfaced out of this? I would like to see some pictures if anybody has them. Dave, do you have any living "Tylotriton" andersoni aka T. wenxianensis/
asperrimus/taliangensis and if so could we see them?
Thanks,
Travis

 

[david]

Sure, the first 2 pics are the wenxianensis, the second 2 are kweichows that are settling.