Tylototriton wenxianensis (Wenxian Knobby Newt)

[TJ]

This has been identified to me by its keeper as T. wenxianensis:

Anybody disagree?

(Message edited by TJ on September 17, 2004)

 

[ira]

i dont, but i'm not an expert.

 

[TJ]

For reference, here is the section pertaining to T. wenxianensis in the Atlas of Amphibians of China:

(Message edited by TJ on September 17, 2004)

 

[TJ]

Ira, what is your basis for disagreement?

Here is another illustration of the same species from Rare and Economic Amphibians of China:

 

[TJ]

Here's another shot comparing it (on left) with Echinotriton andersoni (on right):

(Message edited by TJ on September 17, 2004)

 

[TJ]

Here is a belly shot of the same (T.w on right, E.a on left):

(Message edited by TJ on September 17, 2004)

 

[ira]

oh, i meant i dont disagree that it is a wenxianensis.

the only thing that could make me think differently are the orange toe tips, which arnt in the illustrations. But that could easily be a regional trait, or something the person who made the illustrations overlooked.

 

[TJ]

hehe, sorry, Ira, I misunderstood totally

Yeah, good observation about the toe tip coloration. I had real pic, not an illustration, somewhere, but can't seem to find it right now.

 

[ira]

the vent shot is very interesting, they are almost Indistinguishable. The E.a. head looks a little more robust than the T.w., but other than that i would think they were the same newts from that view.

 

[TJ]

That's what struck me as well

By the way, here are the published pictures I was searching for. I can't name the publication at this point as I didn't write it down.

This is identified as T. wenxianensis:

No orange-tipped toes here either -- with this specimen they're yellow

(Message edited by TJ on September 17, 2004)

 

[TJ]

I think the book might be The Colour Pictorial Handbook of Amphibians in Sichuan.

Here is an illustration from the same book:

 

[TJ]

 

[ira]

maybe S.w. and E.a are closely related. Judging on morphological traits i could see this. have there been any biochemical studies done to compare the two genuses?

 

[jennifer]

Does anyone know how to distinguish between T. wenxiensis and T. asperrimus (besides locality)? There is some question about whether the photos on CC shown for asperrimus are really wenxiensis:
http://www.caudata.org/cc/species/Tylototriton/T_asperrimus.shtml

 

[TJ]

This one in a photo contributed by Kwok looks more like the ones pictured and illustrated in The Colour Pictorial Handbook of Amphibians in Sichuan than the ones pictured and illustrated in the pics above it (less protruding ribs).

(source: http://www.caudata.org/forum/messages/13/17626.jpg)

 

[TJ]

Here is a picture of a newt identified as T. asperrimus asperrimus in a Japanese publication (Repfile Vol. 05):

Jen, you're in luck as I just found something in my documents in which the differences between asperrimus and wenxianensis are spelled out to some extent. But...it's in Chinese and I need to double check my translation with a colleague at work who is from Hong Kong

 

[wouter]

In a report of Jurgen FLeck there is a photo of a T. asperrimus. This animal has a really flat head, distictive ribs that almost penetrate the skin, and a really smooth skin. I haven't seen this in T. wenxianensis.

FLECK, J. (2003): Beobachtungen an Tylototriton asperrimus Understein 1930. Amphibia 2. 2/2003: 3-6.

 

[jennifer]

Well, I'm still at a loss. The animals we have posted on Caudata Culture for T. asperrimus and also for T. wenxiensis were both "pet shop" identifications. I don't see any definitive way to identify either as the correct species.

 

[isaiah]

Dave had some newts sold to him as T. wenxiensis. They look identical to the pictures you posted. I have some pictures I took I will post later.

 

[TJ]

Jen, have faith!

Here is the passage I mentioned that states the morphological differences between the two species. I'll try to get it translated.