Use of the word "caudate"

TJ

New member
Joined
Oct 26, 2002
Messages
4,471
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Location
Tokyo
Country
United States
Display Name
Tim Johnson
Is "caudate" an accepted word? When I met with some Japanese herpetologists recently, I began to feel silly saying "caudates" as nobody else used the term. Should the appropriate word that lumps salamanders and newts together be "urodele/urodeles"? What's the background behind the coexistence of the two terms "Caudata" and "Urodela"?
 
E

edward

Guest
I have see both used. I was first exposed to the usage of caudate at the 1995 SSAR meeting there. There were a number of formal and informal talks that used the word caudate which I think (since I am not a language specialist) is a slang usage. That said, it appears to me that caudate is used more frequently in the USA and urodele is more common elsewhere.

From Biology of Amphibians page 495, top left column, second sentence " The substitute ordinal name Urodela dating from Latreille 1825, commonly used in place of Caudata.

From Herpetology An Introductory Biology of Amphibians and Reptiles page 4, 1st column, second topic 1st paragraph, 10th sentence,
"The salamanders, labeled with the node-based name Caudata (= "having tail") and the stem-based name Urodela (= "tail visible"), have cylindrical bodies,......"
I am not the best at systematics so maybe someone else can explain the difference between node based and stem based if necessary.

Ed
 
N

nate

Guest
Tim: Both Caudata and Urodela are appropriate. And yes, caudate is a perfectly acceptable term, except perhaps for some of the old fogeys and fuddy-duddys around here (you know who you are)


To me, it's always seemed to be a New World vs. Old World issue, and perhaps also a bit of an english vs. everyone else problem. I would add that all Central/South American spanish-speaking researchers I've talked with, also use Caudata so it's not purely english.
 
J

john

Guest
I'm the old fogey Nate's talking about. I don't like the term "caudate" but it is everywhere now.
 
W

william

Guest
i've always thought that caudate meant any animal with a backbone or spinal cord. e.g sponges are caudates but not vertebrates, vertebrates are a sub phylum.
 

TJ

New member
Joined
Oct 26, 2002
Messages
4,471
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Location
Tokyo
Country
United States
Display Name
Tim Johnson

TJ

New member
Joined
Oct 26, 2002
Messages
4,471
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Location
Tokyo
Country
United States
Display Name
Tim Johnson
And then there's this:

"Superorder CAUDATA Oppel, 1811

(salamanders and caecilians are sometimes united in this superorder, based largely on similarity in vertebral structure; alternatively, Urodela is considered the Order for extant families by some, with fossil taxa combined with Urodeles into this one superorder, leaving caecilians a separate entity)"

Source: SYNOPSIS OF RECENT AMPHIBIANS TO GENUS
[prepared by M. J. Fouquette, Jr., for use in the Herpetology course (BIO 474) at Arizona State University.]

http://lifesciences.asu.edu/bio474/jfouquette/Amphibia%2004%20final.pdf
 
L

liz

Guest
Will, I think you are confusing "Chordata" and "Caudata". Chordata is a phylum characterized by animals with (1) gill slits, (2) a notochord, (3) a dorsal nerve cord, and (4) a tail that extends past the anus. Vertebrates are chordates, but not all chordates are vertebrates. Sponges are neither, being in the phylum Porifera, a basal group of animals.
 
General chit-chat
Help Users
  • No one is chatting at the moment.
  • Lonewolf:
    Ok I’m new so I have a pink Axolotl and it’s a baby like two three max inches and it eats from the top and it has now been floating a while now should I be worried ?? The other one is at the bottom of the tank and the tail isint hoocked or the gills aren’t curved flowerd they seem relaxed
    +1
    Unlike
  • Lonewolf:
    ?? I’m new owner to the type of fish
    +1
    Unlike
  • Chat Bot:
    Lonewolf has left the room.
    +1
    Unlike
  • Lanalotl:
    Hi I recently rescued a lotl (i did weeks of research before rescuing) Hes mabey 5 or 6 years of age..the previous owner could not remember the exact age of him. I got him from her as he was or had been picked on by his tank mate another lotl who was bough with him from every younger age, I noticed one of his gills, a middle one at the end had split in two? And is slightly more floppy? He also appears or mabey I'm just over worried to mabey have lost some feathers, is that normal to lose some?...all levels in the tank are fine, but wondered if theres and advice anyone could give me as an experienced owner to a new one.
    +1
    Unlike
  • Axolotl Queen:
    @Lanalotl Sounds like the gills may have been nipped by the tank mate. If he is in his own tank and the parameters etc are all good, then he should grow them back and they should go back to full health and strength. However, depending on how old the injury is they may not fully grow back if they have been constantly nipped at.
    +2
    Unlike
  • Smknmom421:
    Can anyone tell me why this is happening? We just did a water change and after freaking out and whipping around the tank, an hour later they look like this. It won't let me send a pic. The edges of their gills are white and it looks like they have skin shedding off
    +1
    Unlike
  • Murk:
    That sounds like severe skin damage. If you post a thread on the forum, you can attach pictures.
    +1
    Unlike
  • Murk:
    It sounds like something went wrong with the water change, so this could be very dangerous. Did you use a dechlorinator? Could it be there are traces of chlorine or soap in the water? (Or for example, in the bucket you used?)
    +1
    Unlike
  • Murk:
    Normally, I would recommend taking them out of the tank asap and putting them in a tub with fresh water, but if there's something wrong with your tap water or dechlorinator, that might not help either. Do you have acces to bottled water or rain water?
    +1
    Unlike
  • Sal22:
    I think my axie is dying, he’s never had any issues before, I’ve had him 3 years, today I noticed some fluffy looking stuff coming from his genital area so I took him out of his tank and did a full tank clean to make sure the water wasn’t infected as I thought it was fungus and then I noticed he had a cut on his belly which was only small about 5 hours ago and now it’s spread to all of his belly, what do I do I’m freaking out
    +1
    Unlike
  • Sal22:
    Update about my axie, unfortunately he has died over night, he looked as if he was bruised allover his belly, his mucus layer had also started to come off.
    +1
    Unlike
  • Ganaa:
    Anyone here from DMV?
    +1
    Unlike
  • Unlike
  • AlexisJG:
    Hi I have 2 4in juveniles (I’ve had them about 2 weeks and they are doing well I think they’ve grown a little already honestly) but I am supposed to go on a 5-6 day vacation in October about 3-4 months from now. I am wondering how I should go about their care when I am gone. I thought about putting them in separate (fairly big) containers with live plants and/or bubblers with a fan in the dark and either fridging them (my last plan) but I am hoping to to either have someone I trust come feed them and turkey baste waste out or just leave them out and clean the containers before we leave and have someone come check on them once or twice. Does any of this sound like a good or bad idea? I want the best for them. All help appreciated :)
    +1
    Unlike
  • Ganaa:
    @patrickstar116, do you still have your fire salamanders?
    +1
    Unlike
  • patrickstar116:
    @Ganaa, I do you may message me if you wish
    +1
    Unlike
  • HalfDrunkToast:
    hi.....
    +1
    Unlike
  • JDeslippe21:
    Hi, so I have 2 male axolotls and about an hour ago they were both perfectly fine and now only one of them has his tail curling up and his gills are slightly curled?? But other than that they’re both acting normally
    +1
    Unlike
  • Murk:
    Could be he's just excited, spooked or temporarily stressed, which could pass in a few hours. It could also be an indicator of other problems. Do you have any recent water parameters?
    +1
    Unlike
  • AlexisJG:
    Does anyone have any idea how to help with high ammonia levels? I have the API freshwater master kit and everything else’s test results were great besides ammonia. I did a 50% water change and I use API products including ammonia lock.
    +1
    Unlike
  • MuggleMiChu:
    Help! I got my first axolotl two days ago and they have stopped eating. They ate a few frozen blood worms the first day and haven’t eaten or been interested in food since. I feed them frozen blood worms and the tank is around 64 degrees. I do have a filter that moves sometimes and I noticed them swimming up to it, I have a new filter and a fan coming today or tomorrow. I leave the worms in the tank or a little bit before taking them out so I don’t know if they ate when I wasn’t looking. I know it takes a while for them to digest. Does anyone have any tips or knowledge they can share? The pet store I bought them from didn’t have gravel or sand in the tank so I’m not sure if theres an issue or if I’m just impatient. Thank you!
    +1
    Unlike
    MuggleMiChu: Help! I got my first axolotl two days ago and they have stopped eating. They ate a few frozen... +1
    Top