Verrucosus and water

[gord]

Hello:

Just wrote a huge long note and when I sent it my browser crashed.

So here's the short version.

I have two adult wc verrucosus I bought over a year ago. Despite a 50/50, 35 gallon tank, they rarely go in the water. They seem to avoid it actually. I've changed the water regularly and made it easy to get in and out. They are in a cool basement environment (in Canada).Yet I see posts here of verrucosus underwater and being mostly aquatic. My two guys are thriving on land,and eat like pigs, but they they sure don't do much moving. I think aquatic would be better for them, but how to get them in the water?
Thoughts?

troutnerd

p.s, These are dark phase, with little orange or yellow at all.

 

[chris]

Verrucpsus tend to be aquatic when the water temp is around 25 deg. C. This may be your problem. If you use an aquarium stick heater, they will probably go aquatic, though there is nothing wrong with them being terrestrial
Chris

 

[jesper]

It depends on their locality I would say, verrucosus are spread over huge areas where the environmental parameters varies a lot. The southern lowland (darker?) forms seem to be a bit more hydrophilic. It might be a temperature issue as Chris has pointed out.

 

[gord]

update:

Since I made my original post a few weeks back..one of the verrucosus is suddenly using the water more. Not swimming really...but soaking. I didn't heat up the water, it just seemed like it made a natural move to the water. I may still put in a heat stick to see what happens. I've also let the water get a little lower in the tank so perhaps that has helped. Thanks for the replies.

GE

 

[gord]

Another update on this post:

I did finally put a heat stick in the tank, and it did seem to make both my verrucosus stay in the water longer. I find they are often in the water at night, and come out when I flip on the light. They remain, however,largely land dwellers.

One scary side note: When I put the first stick in, it heated up, then cracked. I was right there and and stuck my hand in to get it out.I was almost instantly (mildly) shocked and feared I might have electrocuted my two treasured newts. Thankfully, they were no worse for wear.The second stick has been working fine.

Gord

 

[ian]

yea. I think you need to let the stick adapted to the water temperature before turning it on.

Glad to know that nothing bad happened.

Maybe if you have some plant on the water surface may help them to stay in water after light on. Cause that might have to do with the the lack of hidding place in water? (I am not sure, I never have any history with verrucosus.)

Anyway, it's nice to see another Ontarian here. If you want to cynops, I got some 50 juvenviles.

Look forward to get some verrucosus from you when you started breeding them.

 

[josh]

You're lucky you're verrucosus are ok
I'm also glad to see another Ontarian( that sounds weird to me )here. I agree with Ian about the plants ,probably just a bit more plants
But Ian diden't you say in a previous thread that you can only keep 1 species of newt in ontario?

 

[ian]

o.... no. what I said on the other post is that we as ontarian can only keep one species and one animal of that species if that is a local species. From Ontario Field Guide, there are only 10 speicies: Mudpuppy, Eastern Newt, Spotted Sala, Blue-spotted Sala, jefferson Sala, Small Mouthed Sala, Northern Dusky Sala, Northern Two-lined Sala, Four-toed Sala, Eastern Red-back Sala.

exotic animals don't count. Verrucosus and Cynops Orientalis are from Asia.

For Ontarian keeping wild amphibian laws see here...http://www.carcnet.ca/english/legal/legalON.html See "Wildlife in captivity" (do a search on the page)

(Message edited by achiinto on November 16, 2005)

 

[gregory]

Actually, the list you need to go by is their schedule 5 and schedule 10 (I think they're on the same page you linked to already, Ian)... There are no salamanders described as game amphibians--only the bullfrog (so schedule 5 isn't really that important). The other ones you listed might be native, but it seems aren't protected.

The following are the Ontario "specially protected" salamanders:

Salamander, Blue-spotted
Ambystoma laterale

Salamander, Eastern Tiger
Ambystoma tigrinum tigrinum

Salamander, Four-toed
Hemidactylium scutatum

Salamander, Jefferson(s)
Ambystoma jeffersonianum

Salamander, Northern Dusky
Desmognathus fuscus fuscus

Salamander, Redback
Plethodon cinereus

Salamander, Smallmouth
Ambystoma texanum

Salamander, Spotted
Ambystoma maculatum

Salamander, Two-lined
Eurycea bislineata

It's too bad about some of them; obviously the rules are there to keep people taking them from the wild indeterminately, but some of them are really common in other parts of the world. I guess it makes for tough enforcement, though, if people can just say they got them elsewhere--I suppose it's mostly meant to discourage the pet trade.

Still a shame you can't legally pick up a cluster of eggs when travelling somewhere. Of course, you could always apply for a permit

If anyone knows how easy/hard it is for one in Ontario please post. I'm right across the border, often up there myself.

 

[gord]

Ian and Josh:

Nice to here from Ontario caudata fans.I'm way up north, so I think trading baby newts may be problematic. I have a difficult time actually finding newts like cynops and verrucosus to buy here, although some turn up in a big box pet store every summer for a short time. I bought three shanjing this summer, and two are doing well. One died for no apparent reason. I also have two cynops and two taricha granulosa that I drove back with from Peterborough this spring (bought them at a really great pet store there called animalia). My wife is giving me funny looks as the tanks increase.

No luck breeding my pets, but I keep hoping.

I would love to have a couple native red spotted newts. They are what I kept as a kid. Sadly,they have become rare in my area.

GE

p.s there is quite a lot of aquatic weed in the "wet side" of the verrucosus tank, and a piece of wood to hide behind. Doesn't seem to matter, as they still prefer land most of the time.

 

[josh]

Oh sorry Ian in that thread I thought you meant any species
Gord hopefully for you you'll have better luck with breeding next year
gregory I never knew Plethodon cinereus was protected here because a girl in my class found 4 of 'em and is (probably)keeping them so tomorrow I'll tell her to release it in the ravine near owr school (it would be a perfect place for them)or just to put them where she found them.

 

[gregory]

Josh--yeah, I wouldn't have guessed it either. I was surprised by a couple of the names on the list. They have guidelines for release posted there, too, I think--although I assume most of it is just common sense.

 

[gord]

An update on the Verrucosus and water as of December.

One of my two Verrucosus has decided that water is the place to be. He is now almost always completely submerged in the water and weeds. The fact that the water is now heated did seem to spur on the move to water. He's also a lot more active than he used to be.

However, my big fat girl V is still land bound. She just sits there on the moss waiting to be fed. No sign yet that they have any plans to breed..but I'm a patient man.

GE

 

[jesper]

A good way of getting verrucosus into the water is dropping wiggling pieces of earthworms in the water and not feed them on land. Where the food is you'll soon find your verrucosus, as long as the food wiggles that is.

 

[ian]

gord ellis, If they breed, sure tell me. I really want some.

 

[gord]

Latest update Dec. 18/05:

Both verrucosus are now in the water 80%-90% of the time. Even the big mama is swimming around steady...and they both are on the food hunt all the time. Very interesting. No doubt warming the water made the difference. Thanks to all you caudata.org folks.What a wealth of information you all are!

Gord

 

[gord]

Question: Now that both my newts are in the water basically all the time, should I filter it? They seem to be happy, and I'm doing regular water changes. But I know these things are poop and pee machines. I've checked the PH and it is fine....but what do you folks do?

Both newts are rather large by the way. About 16 cm each and balloons.

Gord

 

[ester]

I just have lots and lots of aquatic plants in there with plenty of light. They grow like nothing, probably using some of the nutrients from the newt waste. I don't use any kind of filter, but do occasional water changes.
The newts love hanging out in the thick plant layer near the surface.

 

[gord]

Ester:

Thanks for the quick response. I'm tempted to not filter as they seem so happy in a still tank. My aquatic plants are doing so/so in my tank however. I think the lack of good light has something to do with that.I have a large Pothos draped across the back that shades it quite a bit.May have to do some pruning.

By the way,I've asked you some questions about your shanjing tank on the vivarium forum.

Gord