Verrucosus egg!

G

gord

Guest
First the good news.I spotted my first verrucosus egg tonight.Om a piece of pothos stem. The newts had been dancing for 24 hours straight, and I should have expected it.But I was surprised to find the egg. I'd given up on them ever breeding.

The bad news. I discovered the egg after I decided to take out the concrete blocks in the tank and the big chunk of grapewood. I was concerned about my ph reading..and the pond smell was coming back.The newts also seemed agitated. I could only assume that it was the mouldy wood and concrete.(the 55 gallon tank in question can be seen in the vivaria photos section). So I stirred up the tank quite a lot.

I don't know how many eggs were destroyed or left high and dry. I couldn't find any on the wood when I just looked but who knows? Maybe they had dried out.

Question: Are verrucosus eggs laid over time or all at once? The dancing has stopped and they are now back to swimming like mad fiends.

I'm excited but a bit bummed that I may have screwed up. But at least one egg made it this far.

I'm hopeful for more.

GE
 
Hi Gord, Most Tylos lay all there eggs over a couple of days...i assume the Verrucosus would be the same. It may just be that you've found the first one soon after it was laid. If i were you i'd turn the light off and leave them to it and i wouldn't be surprised if you have a load laid by the next day or two.
I had a couple of lots of eggs laid on the land and one of these lots were on land for 24 hours on moist soil without drying up....they were all fine and are now hatching
 
Andy:

You're right..I've found several more eggs now..and just saw one get laid. One egg is laying on the floor of the tank, covered in sand..I assume that was a pre-rearrangement egg.

So should I just let them hatch out in this tank? There are tons of daphnia and other squigglies in the tank, so is it a good idea just to let them be?

Obviously,I will be searching the archives now for verrucosus egg/larvae husbandry info..but any pointers are welcome.

Exciting times for a newt geek.

GE
 
Gord, i think the newts were freaking out a bit because you disturbed them whilst they were doing their thing...best bet is to leave them to it and just keep an eye on whats going on. The eggs should be fine for now, though i do take my eggs out and rear them out of the adults tank just in case the adults fancy a snack!....(though i havn't seen my Tylos do this)
There is a great article on the site somewhere by John Clare with regards to rearing this species...though i can't find it at the moment.
There's nothing to worry about right now...just do a bit of research on rearing and you should be set.
Good luck and congratz!
 
Congrats, Gord! I would recommend taking out the first few precious eggs for safekeeping. If the newts lay a large number, you might want to experiment with leaving some of them in the tank. Some people end up having good luck raising larvae in the adult tank, so you can hedge your bets by trying both.
 
OK..it looks like I have about two dozen eggs....maybe more.So I'm going to try and get a little nursery area ready.

I'm thinking I'll take some out...and leave the rest in the big tank. As an experiment.

Now I just have to track down all the info on this site.

GE
 
Well..it's saturday morning..and there are even more eggs.I'm going to guess at least 50 have been laid. Wow.They look good so far, no fuzz etc.

I've decided to take the eggs on any live plants out..and anything on a silk or artificial plant will stay in. There seems to be a pretty good population of copepods, daphnia et. in the big tank..but I wonder if it's enough to keep the babies fed.I may have to stock.

Anyway, I've printed of a book worth of information from this site..so thanks to Jen, John Clare etc. for their previous work and writings on hatching, feeding and raising.

I may post a few pics of the revised tank and a few egg shots if anyone is interested.

Gord
 
A quick update...50 eggs may have been a liberal guess. A closer look in the tank has revealed a little more than half that..maybe 30.I've taken a dozen out and left the rest for now. I want to see how they develop..and the main tank is a bit warmer.

I've also removed one fuzzy egg..and a couple others look like they may be getting fuzzed. What is the general percentage of eggs lost?

Is aeration of the eggs worth the effort? Should I put a heater in with the eggs? The small 5 g. egg tank is at about 70F, the main tank 76F.

How long do verrucosus eggs take to hatch?

Cheers,

GE
 
Hi Gord, how long they take to hatch is dependent on the temperature...but at those temps i guess a couple of weeks or so give or take.
Your bound to lose a few and if they're bad they'll fuzz up pretty soon...i'm guessing that you should see development in 3/4 days.
I did use aeration on my Kweichow eggs but stopped after a while as i didn't think it was doing a lot, though you could use it if you wanted.
And as for how many you'll lose, thats a tough question. I got eggs from one female and lost hardly any...the next female, i lost about 40%
 
Andy:

Thanks for your feedback. Looks like you are going to be the midwife on this delivery!

GE
 
Andy:

I did see that..very cool.I'm thinking we're in mid-neurula. The eggs look like they have a brown crater in them.Most of the eggs shells are now rather opaque. I assume that's normal.

I found a John Clare post that talks about raising juve shanjing just like his fabled verrucosus. Some good info. I've printed that off. He says verrucosus tads are "indestructible". I hope that's true.I'll be thrilled if they hatch!

There really is a staggering amount of information on this site but tracking it down can be a trick. I've spent many hours his weekend poking around.

I'm wondering if the verrucosus would eat some eggs? It looks like there are less in the tank than I originally saw. I wonder if they snacked on some? If so,it doesn't bode well for my "in the tank rearing" experiment.

GE
 
If it is a concern, it may not hurt to just pull the rest of the eggs - Either way, good luck!
Kyle
 
Yeaaaaaaah! Great job Gord! Its great to see that you are having success with breeding such a rare species here in Canada! Good luck on raising the little buggers!
happy.gif
Maybe next spring you can put me on your waiting list for babies!!
happy.gif


(Message edited by bitzer on August 28, 2006)
 
Hi Gord,
first of all, congratulations on your breeding success with this species. They really are fine newts.
Here is some personal experience with the breeding of animals of the verrucosus-complex.
Eggs are usually laid during a period of 24 to 48 hrs most of them in the evening or at night. Some are laid on land (or floats as in the following pictures). My animals have laid several clutches in one season shortly after mating and the transfer of spermatophores.
Percentage of developing eggs depends on a lot of factors. In my case most eggs develop even the ones on land (see picture) if surrounding moisture is sufficient. Time till hatching strongly depends on temperature. Two to three weeks, like Andy wrote, is a very good estimate.

Eggs on cork bark float in setup.

69572.jpg


Closeup of developing eggs.

69573.jpg


The larvae are voracious eaters and tend to be quite cannibalistic. They also grow very fast and tend to grow apart a lot. Therefore I started to raise the larvae I want to keep singly in small setups. Means a lot more control over the animals concerning feeding and development and saves me a lot of time.

T.v. larvae setups.

69574.jpg


T.v. larva

69575.jpg


Cannibalism usually seizes after metamorphosis. The juveniles are usually easy to feed.
I have never used additional aeration or a heater for my larvae. I have kept this species between 10° C and 28° C and never encountered any problems. Despite leaving some eggs in the tank with the parents from time to time I never observed any developing larvae in there.
Hope this helps.
 
Ralf:

Thank you.That was very helpful. I'll have to look at keeping the larvae separate if that's the case.

I checked for land laid eggs and found none.My newts are 99% aquatic, and rarely go on their rock.

I may have to rethink leaving a few eggs in the tack.Although some are in places I really don't want to to dig for..but we'll see.I'd like to get as many larvae hatched as possible.

Danny:

Thanks for your enthusiasm.If this pans out, and these newts get prolific, you will definitely be on the list.

Do you have any species you breed?

GE
 
Hi Gord,

Personally I never raise them separately. Because when I have over 150 eggs I don't intend to raise them all. (It would be possible, but I don't see the point in that) Normally I try to raise about 30 animals.

After the larvae hatch I keep them in small containers with just some rocks, a few plants and aeration (similar to Ralph's setups). When they reach 2.5 cm I move them to large tanks of about 120L, which have a powerful filter and are heavily planted. I then start feeding with small earthworms and frozen bloodworms, this way they metamorphose at around 10-12cm. A positive side-effect is that at this size the juveniles tend to stay aquatic.

@ Ralf: Do you keep the larvae in those containers all the way to metamorphosis? Because some I years ago I also tried this, but the juveniles were just 5-6 cm at metamorphosis.
 
Mark: how many larvae per 120l tank ? At the moment I keep 4 larvae per 20l and it looks pretty insuficient.
 
Juraj: About 25 larvae per tank. When they reach metamorphosis it's a bit crowded, but when they're daily fed they're not to cannibalistic. Though, during feeding I have to keep a close eye on them.

I believe water quality is essential in the raising of Tylototriton sp: clean water with a high oxygen saturation ensures that the larvae metamorphose much bigger, which makes it much easier to raise the juveniles. I use a biofilter to keep the water clean that also pumps extra oxygen in the water. The tank is also densely planted with Elodea densa to make sure they can't see each other the whole time (less biting each other :p).

This year I received 30 eggs from a friend, of which I raised 28 juveniles this way.
 
Folks:

Sadly, it's not looking good for my first ever batch of Verruscosus eggs. I came home today and half of the eggs I took out of the tank yesterday were fuzzy, the others seem stalled.

The eggs left in the tank weren't much better.Several were fuzzy,..the others looked ok, but quite opaque and with no sign of real development.

I realize this happens, but it's obviously disappointing.


The good news is my newts proved they can do it, and this bodes well for the future I think.I'll keep you all posted if there is any more news...and if any eggs prove to be ok

Thanks for all your help and advice as always.

Gord
 
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