Which Vet Is Correct?

[Guy Kazama]

I have two vets telling me totally opposite things. My axolotl is obviously suffering from some kind of infection. The first one, whom we saw last week, said to put Eno (my axolotl) in a salt bath for 30 minutes twice a day. The salt bath is 3 grams of salt per 1 liter of water. But Eno didn't improve, so today the vet said to put Eno in the same solution all day and bring him back in one week.

Then another vet e-mailed me and said, "I think your axolotl is suffering from infectious disease. You should stop your treatmennt(soaking in saline bath)immediately.
It's because your axolotl is an amphibian,not fish."

These two opposing opinions come from vets who see amphibians and also axolotls--not all vets that see amphibians see axolotls. So, who do I believe? If I follow the wrong advice, I could kill my axolotl.


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[LSuzuki]

I won't hazard a guess as to which vet is more correct, since it would be a guess. (I'm new to axolotls).

However, with respect to salt and fish, it is quite common to treat sick freshwater fish with salt (in addition to other appropriate treatments), as it improves gill function (reduces osmotic pressure) without harm for many species of fresh water fish. This is believed to reduce the physical stress on the fish so it can recover faster. So, this standard fish treatment is probably the source of the second vet's comment on your axolotl not being a fish.

(If I did the English-to-metric conversions correctly, that salt bath is about 4 times as strong as what is commonly recommended for fresh water fish in the US, but I'm sure there is a safety margin in the common recommendation.)

 

[auntiejude]

Salt baths are usually done for 10-15 minutes twice a day - I'd go with the second vet as the first obviously doesn't know much about salt baths. And if the salt baths haven't been working then maybe another treatment will.

I don't see any fungus on your axie, whcih is what salt baths are used for, I would say antibiotics are a better option. Although your axie is obviously suffering the after effects of salth bathing.

 

[Guy Kazama]

GENERAL COMMENT, NOT DIRECTED AT MEMBERS:
Ironically, following a bunch of axie experts' advice is what got us in this predicament. I had a simple setup, no decorations, no filter, daily water changes of about 40%. Then experts said you need to cycle the tank, and if you don't, you should add beneficial bacteria--but you need surfaces on which they can grow, such as hides and decorations. So, long story short, when I finally dumped the tank after Eno got sick, I found food, etc., under those beneficial decorations. And the water, which looked and smelled clean prior, was foul-smelling and filthy when I turned up the decorations. If I had left things the way I had them in the beginning, Eno would be happy, like he was before. He used to swim up to the surface when I greeted him, because I kept the water relatively shallow. The tank was large, and he loved swimming around. He'd even stand up on his back legs and follow me around. So, lesson learned: Next time you have something good going, don't let "experts" tell you you're doing wrong. Now, none of those so-called experts can offer any help, other than to say, "Are you testing your water for nitrites?" or "Didn't you cycle your tank?"

COMMENT TO MEMBERS:
Thank you for your help, advice, and support. You all rock. Eno is out of the salt bath and will see a different vet in the morning.

 

[keiko]

I'm sorry your axie got sick, but personally I do agree it's good to cycle the tank and give the axie some hides and plants etc. If you cycle the tank it saves you a lot of time and energy as well as giving you a little freedom to go out of town for a couple of days or even just if you get sick you don't have to worry about changing the water every day to keep your axie safe. The hides will make your axie feel more safe and comfortable as well as provide at least some stimulation for them so they have something to do instead of just sitting in a little empty tank all their lives.

Bottled bacteria is never as good as cycling the tank the right way.Most of the bottled bacteria won't work as well as it says on the bottle and it is very important to test the water constantly when cycling the tank. In an uncycled tank the wastes under the decorations could've spoiled the water quickly and lead to the foul smell and sick axie. It is very important to regularly clean under the decorations too even in a cycled tank, it's just normal aquarium maintenance.

I hope the second vet will know what to do with Eno and that he'll be fine afterwards.

 

[auntiejude]

I'm sorry your axie got sick, but did you not think to move the ornaments and clean underneath them? And even with a good filter and established cycle you still need to do regular water changes.

There is no reason an axie can't live in an uncycled, unfiltered tank all its life, but it will require large daily water changes, which is why most people use a filter and cycle their tank.

 

[LSuzuki]

You might find this link helpful, in that it mentions some info about bacteria responsible for the biological filters that I haven't seen well presented elsewhere. Nitrifying Bacteria | Aquarium Basics | Columns | TFH Magazine®

I highly recommend a cycled tank, for the reasons mentioned above. (I really don't have a choice where I live since the pH is very high so the ammonia is far more toxic than it is at a more neutral pH. Lugging water gets very tedious after a while.) The tank will still cycle if you keep doing daily water changes, just much more slowly, and Eno will be happier with the ammonia kept very low. There just has to be some ammonia (and eventually nitrites) around for the bacteria to eat in order to reproduce.

So to cycle the tank, I recommend keep an eye on the ammonia/nitrite level and change enough water every day to keep it at/below a certain level. You will eventually find yourself changing less water as the bacteria take hold. Then you can switch to periodic water changes. Note: you probably want to get Eno healthy first before cycling the tank.

Good luck!

 

[Guy Kazama]

The new vet seems to know her stuff. She said "simple is best" when it comes to axies.

I've reached the conculsion that filters are basically useless for axies because filters only work best with good water movement. Axies, of course, hate water movement. Filters only serve to decrease the frequency of water changes, but in the case of axies they pose a potential hazard because bad bacteria can sometimes overtake even a properly cycled tank. Again, because the filter can't do its job if the water isn't moving fast enough. Basically, if you want an axolotl, you have to do lots of water changes, filter or no filter. One simple hide for an axie is ok, but not essential. They won't die without one. And it has to be cleaned all the time, even with a filter in the tank. "All the time" means "with every water change." Eno had three hides and never used any of them, BTW, so I guess he didn't read the websites that said axies need hides. LOL

One person here made the comment, "...did you not think to move the ornaments and clean underneath them?" This is insulting but not helpful. But to address this comment, yes, I did think of it. But "experts" said such cleanings only have to be done monthly if you are doing regular weekly water changes of 20~30%. I was doing DAILY water changes of 40~50% or more. Eno got sick within two weeks of my adding the decorations. Many self-proclaimed axolotl experts, and even many vets, are not fully experienced with axies, as we found out.

The new vet put Eno on anti-biotics. We hope they do the trick. Salt baths, incidentally, are NEVER good for axies, contrary to popular wisdom--even on this site. I'm told it has to do with osmotic pressure. Since I'm not a vet, I won't pretend to fully understand, but her explanation essentially said that axies are not fish so they should not be treated as fish. When I mentioned "experts" who treat axies' fungal infections with salt baths, she nodded and said many vets make that same mistake, but it's the wrong treatment. It will kill the fungus, sure, but it also puts undue stress on the axies and damages their gills, even if you only put them in for 10 minutes. They heal because axies have amazing healing powers, but you are still injuring them unnecessarily. So I asked, "What do you do for fungal infections on axolotls." She laughed and said, "We use an anti-fungal medication." Duh! LOL

These forums are great for discussion, but I really learned my lesson. Don't listen to people on the Internet, and trust your instincts--even if a vet or doctor tells you otherwise. I had a feeling that the salt bath was a bad idea, but figured "I'm not a vet. Who am I to argue?" That was wrong.

Thank you all for your help and advice. Best wishes to all of you and your beloved pets. Thank you all for your positive thoughts, prayers, vibes, etc., for Eno. We both sincerely appreciate them.

 

[xxianxx]

You will find vets on this site, who have a specific interest in amphibians, recommend salt bathing as one treatment for fungus. From reading your posts I suggest you do a lot more research on axolotls and how to set up a suitable habitat for them, I would take the time to respond to some of the points you have made but I assume I would be wasting my time.

 

[keiko]

Sounds like you have made your mind about the best set-up for an axie so I'm not going to start arguing about it even though I do disagree with you. But I'll give you a little something to think about: An axolotl can live in an empty tank without anything to do, but is it a happy life? A life worth living? Would you be happy living a life like that? My opinion is that as a pet owner it is my responsibility to make sure my pet lives a happy life as well as a healthy life and with the right set-up I think I've succeeded in both so far.