Worried

[anne]

Hey,I brought 2 Axylotl's last week, and both are males. I have noticed some issues though, and are seeking some advice.

I brought a tank and gravel from a well known and recognised pet store, but i have noticed that Romeo (golden albino) has been eating the gravel. The pet shop owner recommended it, so hence i figured it was alright. Now you can actually see the gravel he has eaten and when you touch him, i can feel them (there must be 2 or three) inside him. I tried massaging (i know it sounds silly) it gently out, but nothing. Im not sure where to go from here.

I did notice a large floating rock, that looked alot like vomit in the corner of the tank the other day, when i got it out it was surrounded by green muck. Not sure if this is Romeo's way of getting rid of the pebbles?

Falkor (white albino) and Romeo seem to be coming up to the surface of the tank and taking in large gulps of air and then sinking to the bottom of the tank. Is this normal? The filter is working normally. Romeo seems to be doing this alot more frequently though.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

[kapo]

Did you setup your tank the same week you got your axolotls?

<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!><font size=1>Quoting Anne on Thursday 01 March 2007 - 12:36 (#POST123092):</font>

gravel from a well known and recognised pet store, but i have noticed that Romeo (golden albino) has been eating the gravel. The pet shop owner recommended it, so hence i figured it was alright<!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote>

Most petshops recommend gravel, probably assume there's nothing wrong with it as fish are ok with it. I will never use gravel for our axolotls. We bought 4 3yr old axies last Jan & Mar respectively. They lived on gravel. We used sand from the day we picked them up (also because our then juveniles had always been on sand since we got them) and the 3yr olds started pooing out gravel and pebbles ranging from a few mm up to 1.5cm round glass pebbles. (and yes it sounds similar to the mucky one you describe, also very painful to watch!) Its been just over a year and they still poo gravel out (they also had been rather lumpy looking and are a lot slimmer!) You should remove the gravel.

You can have your tank floor bare or use sand (you don't have to strip your tank down if you wish to add sand - just remove the gravel in sections. As you remove each section, pour sand into each section to replace it. (that's if you choose to use sand). Gravel/river rocks also harbour a lot of gunk, uneaten food and poo gets trapped between and beneath and can cause water quality problems

<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!><font size=1>Quoting Anne on Thursday 01 March 2007 - 12:36 (#POST123092):</font>

Falkor (white albino) and Romeo seem to be coming up to the surface of the tank and taking in large gulps of air and then sinking to the bottom of the tank. Is this normal? <!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote>

Whenever an axie does this, especially if your tank is a newly setup one (within a few days or week/s) then you should test your water parameters.

Was your tank cycled? See: http://www.caudata.org/cc/articles/cyclingEDK.shtml

Cycling can take anywhere from 3-8 weeks to establish.

You need to test for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate. If you don't have the test kits, you'll need to take a sample of tankwater to the petshop; ask them to test it and write the figures down.

If any of the figures for ammonia and nitrIte are above 0, you will need to do daily partial 30% only waterchanges to keep the levels safe for your axie to live in.

if the petshop tries to sell you stuff to fix ammonia or nitrite - don't buy it it won't fix your tank and will muck up the cycling. Daily partial waterchanges will help sort it out.

Most petshops don't know much about the care/needs of looking after an axolotl and usually give you the wrong information; such as giving fish medicine to an axolotl (most fish medicines are toxic to an axie). If in doubt pop into the forum and someone will help.

Another thing don't clean the filter at all until your tank is cycled, the good bacteria will start to establish on the filter sponge.

One other thing, what is the tank temperature? If tank temperature is 24C or above you need to cool the tank down ; warm water also has less oxygen which is why your axies could be surfacing.

 

[anne]

WOW!

Ok, i brought the tank on the 21st of Feb, and i got Romeo on the Friday and Falkor on the Saturday afternoon. I was told they would be alright, seeing as the water conditoner only took 4hrs to work, and i had left it for over a day.

The water temperature has risen to 26c and i put a frozen water bottle in there and it lowered it to 22c. I leave the lid of the tank of overnight and the windows are open in the room, which allows for a breeze, but the water is generally 22-23c.

I dont have a PH kit, but i will get my water tested.

At present, i have removed Romeo and Falkor out of my tank, and placed them both in my sisters Axylotl tank with her one. I removed all the pebbles from my tank, and it was proberly a good thing, gunk and dirt is now present in the now pebble free tank.

At present, im unsure if i should now cyphen the water out and start a new with sand, and water conditioner and new water, or leave the current water in there and put the sand in.

What is your opinion?

 

[kapo]

<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!><font size=1>Quoting Anne on Thursday 01 March 2007 - 13:39 (#POST123100):</font>

At present, im unsure if i should now cyphen the water out and start a new with sand,
and water conditioner and new water, or leave the current water in there and put the sand in. <!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote>

You can just add the sand directly in. No need to start again. You can pick up playsand from Bunnings or similar hardware store quite cheaply, here its $5 for 25kg bag. Rinse it well several times first, we found pouring it in rows about 1-2cm height easy. The sand may take a couple of hours to settle (will be cloudy/dirty looking till finer stuff settles
Well, you don't have to have sand, some owners just have the bare tank floor, one or two others have gravel or sand but siliconed to the tank floor so it is easy cleaning, and wont be swallowed. If u did the siliconing idea, then you could remove your water (but place it in a bucket with any decos/pipes and leave filter soaking in same water while you do your tank.)

<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!><font size=1>Quoting Anne on Thursday 01 March 2007 - 13:39 (#POST123100):</font>

I dont have a PH kit, but i will get my water tested. <!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote>

At present while your tank is cycling the most important ones to test for are ammonia/nitrite and nitrate.

<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!><font size=1>Quoting Anne on Thursday 01 March 2007 - 13:39 (#POST123100):</font>

i have removed Romeo and Falkor out of my tank, and placed them both in my sisters Axylotl tank with her one.<!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote>

New axies should always be quarantined for 30 days before introducing them to resident axies, as they may be ill or have something/pass some illness or other onto the resident axie, who in turn can get sick and/or die.

If possible take them out and keep them in a plastic storage bin or bucket of fresh dechlorinated water, change majority daily until they return to their tank.

You can also use a fan blowing across surface of tankwater to cool tank, moving it to the coolest room of house, away from direct heat/light sources also helps. (pedestal fans are good as you can alter angle and height of them) Another aussie owner posted following thread on maintaining cool temperatures while at work, which may be handy for you to try. http://www.caudata.org/forum/messages/793/78488.html?1171970762

 

[anne]

Thanks Kapo,

I got my water tested today and the only problem was the Ammonia, as you stated previously, so ive added a product called 'Prime' and put in a 'Aqua clear' ammonia remover (which is in a sack, replacing a sponge, in the filter, as i was shown). I was told to leave the tank as is for a few days to settle and for the ammonia to go away.

I removed all the larger pebbles, and got the finest pebbles the pet shop had. Basically, these pebbles are so small, they will pass thru the Axylotl's (they are quite smaller then the Axylotl food i am currently feeding them).

Falkor and Romeo are fine at present. I was quite pleased when i found that Falkor ate 11 pellets, and as normal Romeo gobbled down 14..... Falkor is quite thin, so as long as he eats and Romeo continues to be a monster eater, all will be good.

I'll keep you posted.

 

[kapo]

Were you advised by the petshop to use the ammonia remover? You shouldn't have added any ammonia remover. The reason there is ammonia is because your tank is new and cycling. You should in cases like this do partial waterchanges (20-30%) as this will not effect your tank cycling.

When a new tank starts to cycle, which is when waste is introduced into the tank (via urine/poo or uneaten/regurgitated food once your axies were added) you get ammonia. Ammonia rises to a point/peak and then a bacteria develops (nitrIte), ammonia then will drop back to 0 while the nitrIte rises. NitrIte will in turn rise/peak and NitrAte will develop. NitrIte will drop back to 0 and your NitrAte levels may continue remain (around 10-40ppm/mg - varies). NitrAte is the good bacteria which aids in cleaning ammonia and nitrite from your tank.

When your tank is cycled your tank water readings should be ammonia 0, nitrite 0 and nitrate (ranging between 10-40). This takes longer than 4 days, it can take as I said before 3-8 weeks to establish. By adding the ammonia remover you will muck up the cycling and it may end up cycling longer. I would, if I were you, remove the ammonia remover. (if it is drops of some sort, then just stop adding them).

the partial waterchanges (20-30%) daily will bring ammonia/nitrite levels down gradually but will not effect cycling as much as an ammonia remover. All new tanks go through cycling, petshop advice is not necessarily the best advice.

11 pellets seem rather a lot. Do you feed them anything else? The best food for an axolotl is earthworms (not mealworms); so if you can try and source them. How big/long are your axies (any idea how old they are and how often do you feed them)?

 

[anne]

I was advised by the petshop to buy the ammonia remover, due to the level that it was, and they said this would be why my Axy's were surfacing for air.

I'll take the remover out, that is in the filter....im also buying sand today, i figure, by leaving the pebbles in the tank it'll just complicate things in the long run.

I havent actually measured my Axy's (no ruler), but at a guess they would be over 15cm each, possibly Romeo is roughly 17cm...as his tail is a bit longer then Falkor's.

I dont feed my Axy's anything else, just the pellets, and ive been feeding them once a day, at about 7pm. I did buy some earthworms (small ones) and my sisters Axy and Romeo took to them, but Falkor, just stood looking at them....didnt open his mouth or go to snatch at it at all. So im continuing feeding him the pellets.

Again thanks for this info.

 

[kapo]

Have you tried wiggling the worm? Two of ours took quite a while to get used to eating worms, they had been living on freeze dried tubifex cubes and strips of ox heart/liver for 3 years, since they were little. They also used to just sit, didn't grab the worms which our others do.

 

[anne]

Well the worms come in clumps....so as soon as i place my hand in the tank and start to move towards them, the worms sort of choose a path of there own, but Romeo searches the tanks for them.....Falkor just wont do anything with them. He just sort of stares at them...no mouth movements, nothing, he doesnt want anything to do with them.

I have noticed in the past couple of days though, as im offering the pellets to Falkor he is starting to get the 'snatching' action down to par.....opening his mouth wide for the food, as opposed to opening it a little and lifting his head slightly, this may be because he is getting older or that he is just settling in.

 

[kapo]

Try separating a worm or two out before putting them in the tank, if you can, then wiggle it above or in front of his head.

 

[anne]

Ive tried seperating the worms, but yeah,i just dont think they are Falkor's cup of tea, to say the least.

Falkor and Romeo are back in the tank, which now has sand, and is getting a 30% water change daily, to get rid of the nasties.

They are allowing me to pat there bellies and hand feed them, so thats at least a positive out of this, that they are now more comfortable with me.I gotta admit, sand is a brilliant idea, when Romeo pops out a stone, i can identify it and i remove it right away, so it's all good...

They both still come up for air quite a bit, but i figure all the nasties will be getting removed daily (so i shouldnt worry so much about this), so not to put any supplements etc in the tank, is this right?

Also on a totally different note, and whilst i have your expertise. My sisters Axy, isnt looking all that great lately. It looks very bloated, and when she put it in a bucket,whilst she did a water change the other day, i noticed a sticky residue which came off it, when it was touched. Her Axy, Dorothy, is roughly 9mths old and is fed daily. When i asked the pet shop, they checked her water (ph was slightly high, due to water change, otherwise it was all good), and basically said it's just pebbles (get this, they suggested getting 'Bigger rocks'...go fig), whilst it's been in the tank, it has been spitting/vomiting/escreting quite a few pebbles, but her one's belly doesnt feel like pebbles. In actual fact it feels hollow, like there is air in it's belly or water...any suggestions?

Again thanks again for your time.

 

[kapo]

Hi Anne, good to hear Falkor and Romeo seem more comfortable, just keep an eye on temperature

As for your sister's axy - why does she remove it when she does a waterchange, just curious?

Did they test for anything other than pH?

Axies have a slimecoat but not sure if the sticky stuff might be part of slimecoat. Have read somewhere on this forum that if its sticky it might sick.

Might be an idea to keep it in the fridge and see if the bloating goes down. The fridge will slow its metabolism down and give it a chance to heal and destress.