Identify please

[Traxolotl]

Ive been told two lined ,three lined, necturus and others please give me a definite answer

 

[John]

How big and where from? At a guess I will say Eurycea something.

 

[ozarkhellbender]

Definitely Eurycea. I'd say Eurycea guttolineata, E. longicauda, or E. lucifuga.

 

[Neotenic_Jaymes]

I totally think Eurcyea but the more I thought about it I got more confused. I know you said maybe its N. punctatus but I still think its to slim to be a Necturus. Plus the limbs and toes are very long to be Necturus but I could be wrong. The coastal spotting seems more of Eurycea and other Plethodontid. Necturus juvenile/larvae traits are stripes or solid darker coloration.

 

[Traxolotl]

They're almost three inches.

 

[Lamb]

These are definitely Eurycea and not Necturus. I don't think that they are E. guttolineata, and if they were found in my neck of the woods (S Mississippi), I'd ID them as E. cirrigera (our version of the two-lined).

 

[Slimy2]

They look a lot like the larval Eurycea cirrigera I found all the time, when I lived in Georgia and I'm betting that's exactly what they are.

 

[Infamous82]

The 2 lines around here are fully developed at 2.5-3 in. and the 3 lined larvae I have seen have the stripes developed at that size, so not sure. I'm pretty sure that they are not necturus though.

 

[ozarkhellbender]

I think they are kinda big for any of the Two-lined species. I honestly believe they are Eurycea lucifuga.

 

[Traxolotl]

They all have nice big fluffy gills. And none of them have the same color all diffrent shades

 

[Lamb]

Two lined salamander larvae can get beyond 5 cm in total length, so these do not look too big.

The dorsolateral pigmented lines of three lined salamander larvae have much more melanin (black pigment) in them than the two lined larvae do, at least in my area. Two lined larvae tend to have more streaking in the stripes than do the three lined, and the lines tend to be thinner.

As for whether or not it is lucifuga, that I do not know as they do not occur in my area. But see what the keys say.

As for the bushyness or redness of the gills - these traits change with time and environmental conditions. I keep Eurycea larvae in the lab. Those that come in with very short gill filaments can develop longer, bushier filaments over time (a couple of weeks). As for the background color, or shading, I have collected Eurycea cirrigera larvae that are almost pitch black (see the first picture), and those that are pale with almost no melanin whatsoever (see the second picture). The third picture is of a smaller E. cirrigera larva. You should be able to see the pairs of dorsolateral spots in all of these photos, this is a trait that is supposed to be indicative of E. cirrigera, and not present in E. guttolineata. Again, you're larvae are Eurycea, and if they were down here I'd say cirrigera. But look in to lucifuga or possibly longicauda? I believe that looking for dark ventral surfaces of toes is a trait used with these species?

 

[Traxolotl]

Have you had fairly large ones? I caught a tiny 1 incher in my creek but those three were collected from the top of a mountain in the water that flows into a lake like 30 yards away.

 

[Lamb]

I believe the largest Eurycea cirrigera larvae is 60 or 70 mm (2.5 - nearly 3 inches). It's mentioned in Lannoo's book, which I don't have on hand at the moment. I have two in the lab that are in the process of metamorphosing and they are both around that length.

 

[taherman]

I'd agree, don't look like lucifuga or longicauda/guttolineata. They are probably some sort of two-lined.

 

[Todd Pierson]

Agreed. These are definitely the E. bislineata complex.

 

[Coastal Groovin]

Their head shape really looks to be a Eurycea species. They look like Eurycea cirrigera to me. Neotenic adults are found in Alabama. They seem very large at 3 inches to not have morphed or they about to do so. You might be very lucky and have some neotenic adults. Keep their water quality good and they should stay that way if they are.