Wild caught Tigers

[NewtPoot]

I’ve noticed that basically every Tiger Salamander is wild caught and I just feel really bad about that. I’ve always wanted one but not sure if I should support this by buying one. What are your experiences?

 

[EllieWind]

I’ve noticed that basically every Tiger Salamander is wild caught and I just feel really bad about that. I’ve always wanted one but not sure if I should support this by buying one. What are your experiences?

Typically the reason almost all tiger salamanders you'll find for sale are wild caught is because they are very difficult to breed in captivity and not many people have successfully bred them.

 

[Audrey22]

Personally, I would not support wild caught. Just for the ethics of it. It might be harder to find a captive bred tiger, or impossible but there are plentyof other options though. It sounds like you were asking opinions.

 

[LittleGreenFrog]

agreed

 

[Dragonfire]

I for one think it is less straightforward than "wild-caught bad". I currently keep a single captive-bred A. m mavortium, yes I am certain it is CB, but its parents surely weren't. If you are going into it with the intent to take on the rigors of breeding an exceptionally tricky species to reproduce, then purchasing WC animals as first-generation breeders is surely justified. Additionally, low levels of collection are rarely a concerning source of pressure on healthy populations. If you can't find any captive-bred I would personally shoot for larvae I know were treated well after collection, perhaps from another hobbyist who only collected a couple or a long-term captive animal from another keeper's personal collection. I wouldn't purchase from a bait shop or large reptile seller though as I still don't wish to support the mass collection and commercialization of this species.

 

[xxianxx]

If your in the Uk i have 200 barred tiger sal larvae atm my friend who bred them has 500. Potentially he has another couple of subspecies who could lay this year. Tigers can be bred in captivity, the method is not too complicated but does require an understanding of it. The reason this species is not more widely bred in captivity is the cheap availability of wc adults. It would cost a breeder too much time and cash to compete with pet shop prices. The uk now has a ban on importation of phibs so we should see a rise in the number of people breeding. I personally wouldnt buy wc unless it was to establish a breeding group.

 

[Herpin Man]

Personally, it kind of galls me whenever I see someone automatically chastising another for collecting or purchasing a wild amphibian or reptile, without considering the specifics. If the animal in question was taken legally from a sustainable population, and is subsequently provided with proper care, I don’t see what the issue is. Many species, such as tigers, are seldom or never bred in captivity.
With the exception of newer and younger herp hobbyists, most of us got our start with herps that we caught ourselves. I think that people sometimes fail to realize that the entire hobby originated with wild caught animals, and that captive breeding is really quite new, relatively speaking.

 

[MnGuy]

If your in the Uk i have 200 barred tiger sal larvae atm my friend who bred them has 500. Potentially he has another couple of subspecies who could lay this year. Tigers can be bred in captivity, the method is not too complicated but does require an understanding of it. The reason this species is not more widely bred in captivity is the cheap availability of wc adults. It would cost a breeder too much time and cash to compete with pet shop prices. The uk now has a ban on importation of phibs so we should see a rise in the number of people breeding. I personally wouldnt buy wc unless it was to establish a breeding group.

Can you and your friend write a post describing the process? It would help a ton of people. Thanks!

 

[xxianxx]

Personally, it kind of galls me whenever I see someone automatically chastising another for collecting or purchasing a wild amphibian or reptile, without considering the specifics. If the animal in question was taken legally from a sustainable population, and is subsequently provided with proper care, I don’t see what the issue is. Many species, such as tigers, are seldom or never bred in captivity.
With the exception of newer and younger herp hobbyists, most of us got our start with herps that we caught ourselves. I think that people sometimes fail to realize that the entire hobby originated with wild caught animals, and that captive breeding is really quite new, relatively speaking.

Where in this thread is anybody being chastised ? The point i was making was that breeders cant cover their breeding costs when animals picked up off the ground are sold commercially.

 

[Dragonfire]

Personally, it kind of galls me whenever I see someone automatically chastising another for collecting or purchasing a wild amphibian or reptile, without considering the specifics. If the animal in question was taken legally from a sustainable population, and is subsequently provided with proper care, I don’t see what the issue is. Many species, such as tigers, are seldom or never bred in captivity.
With the exception of newer and younger herp hobbyists, most of us got our start with herps that we caught ourselves. I think that people sometimes fail to realize that the entire hobby originated with wild caught animals, and that captive breeding is really quite new, relatively speaking.

Same as people keeping their catch fishing. If you follow your states bag and size limits odds are the fish population won't suffer. It's not like a heron or such could not have nabbed the same fish you caught a day later. Biggest thing imo is supporting collectors that utilize ethical practices (sticking to state/local laws, not overcollecting, etc) and for non native species importers that treat the animals well. It's a bit harder to to find some species if you hold sellers to higher criteria, but totally doable and worth not buying from the big drop-shipping vendors. You can also find many of these species captive bred, it just takes a lot of waiting and searching.

 

[Dragonfire]

Where in this thread is anybody being chastised ? The point i was making was that breeders cant cover their breeding costs when animals picked up off the ground are sold commercially.

This is surely a concern though. Really sucks since there are a number of advantages provided by CB animals. For one they should ideally have no parasite load and CB specimens come well adjusted to the diets we prefer to offer off the bat. This was why I've held out for CB animals with a number of seldom bred species, despite easy access to WC. As such It's surely important to promote captive breeding in whatever ways we can, perhaps sellers would be more willing to do so if they saw that demand was there, but currently most people looking for species like tiger salamanders are stuck in an unfortunate situation where a majority of animals are sold by tackle shops or big reptile vendors that buy wholesale and sell a ton of different species.

 

[xxianxx]

Can you and your friend write a post describing the process? It would help a ton of people. Thanks!

I can ask him , cant guarantee he will. Basically you have to replicate the seasons to bring the tigers into breeding condition. A cooling period is required, wether this is achieved by popping them in the fridge for a couple of months or leaving them outside is down to your location. More people in Europe seem to have bred tigers than the US, fortunately John, this sites founder, has. Try asking him, i did a search but couldnt find any of his threads about it.