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rob
15th November 2002, 14:57
Well, this morning my tank is filled with eggs. Hundreds of them. I'm so excited...my first captive breeding! http://www.caudata.org/forum/clipart/happy.gif

Rob

jennifer
15th November 2002, 23:00
Congratulations, newt-dad! http://www.caudata.org/forum/clipart/happy.gif Are you going to raise some of them?

john
16th November 2002, 03:21
Congratulations Rob - populate the world with them. http://www.caudata.org/forum/clipart/happy.gif

rob
16th November 2002, 16:28
Thank you Jen and John.

I'm excited because it's my first time. I intend to try and raise some, and I am going to place an add for eggs on the ad section for anyone else who'd like some.

Populate the world? Hell...take over. I mean it's like my agenda:
A) Breed newts and sals in mass numbers.
B) Conquer the world.
C) Have lunch.

I have a busy day today! LOL

Thanks for the encouragment guys. I'm sure this must be common place to you all now, but I'm very pumped about it. Hopefully it all goes well!

Rob

rob
21st November 2002, 03:02
Hey all,

one week in, a couple dozen that went bad, but the rest are doing great. You can see the tail, head and yolk in each egg already....faster then I thought!

Rob

rob
22nd November 2002, 01:47
Well....some have hatched today after a little more then 7 days. THey look very close to the way all the others in their eggs look so I'm guessing the rest will start hatching this weekend.

That was fast...

jennifer
22nd November 2002, 02:50
That WAS fast! How many are you raising? Populating the world with newts sounds great (LOL), but it's going to be tough. The problem with larvae is that, while it's easy to keep 100 newly-hatched ones, as they grow it gets more and more risky for overcrowding. Figure on about 1-2 gallons of tank/tub space per larva, with at least a 25% water change per day. You will need lots of tanks or tubs, and the capacity to produce many gallons per day of aged water. Good luck!

rob
22nd November 2002, 03:19
I'm very shocked at the speed.

As for how many I'm raising...I never ended up giving away any eggs..I had one person interested and was going to send them next week sometime. I'm unsure if sending larva is a good idea now though.

I'm going to see how many hatch.

I have the ten gallon tank they're in plus 3 empty ones that I can use to clean water and/or raise them in.

I use a small spounge filter though, so is 25% per day still required? I was planning on 10% or so every day.

They're so tiny...

Thanks for the info. I may end up raising about 10-20 in one or two tanks after I see how many of the little ones survive the next few days as well.

(unregistered
22nd November 2002, 13:01
Mes pleurodéles s'accouplent toute la journée mais ne pondent pas. Pourquoi ? PS : Y a t il des francophones sur ce forum ? JB

My pleurodéles is coupled all the day but do not lay. Why? PS: Are there French-speaking people on this forum? JB

eric
23rd November 2002, 02:07
Salut JB

Mon nom est Eric et je suis francophone (Montréal)
Je participe régulièrement à ce forum
Regarde dans la section «Wanted in the UK» «Triturus species wanted» et tu en apprendras davantage sur moi et mes projets avec Paul ou Rob.
Pour ce qui est de tes pleurodeles, il peut y avoir de longs délais entre l'accouplement et la ponte. De plus la qualité de l'eau peut être fondamentale pour ne pas tuer le sperme du mâle. Il semblerait que même une température de l'eau trop élevée peut avoir des effets négatifs sur le sperme!!!!
Pour être honnête avec toi, j'ai eu par le passé des centaines d'oeufs de Pleurodéles sans faire d'effort particulier, mais je n'ai pas tenté d'élever les larves faute d'espace et de ressource suffisante à cette époque.
N'oublie pas que si la femelle ne mange pas ses oeufs, les autres le feront avec un zèle étonnant...
Bonne chance
Au plaisir de discuter de nouveau ensemble
Eric

N.B. Oups!!! I know it's an english forum
Sorry Guys, I won't do it again...

jennifer
23rd November 2002, 17:38
Rob,
The sponge filter is great, but you still need to monitor ammonia. And be sure to rinse the sponge out every day or so. The problems with water quality won't start until (1) leftover food decays, or (2) the larvae get big and are eating a ton. The more water changes, the better, but you might not need 25% every day (at least not for while yet...)

steve
23rd November 2002, 21:00
Bonjour Eric et JB

I'm des Etats-Unis sont n'importe lequel de vous des types partageant oeufs pour mon multiplication projet? J'ai un importateur américain ainsi il sera légal.

email je Steve
webmaster@wtc1993.com

eric
24th November 2002, 03:19
Hi Steve
I drop you a E-Mail on November 22 (00:37) but it looks like it never reachs you!!!!
What I have to say to you are the following things.
Your will to breed newts on a large basis is very interesting.
But, in fact, I really want to do the same in my own basement!!!!
OK, I own Mandarin Newts and Cynops but only for pleasure because this spring I will concentrate on Vittatus, Karelinii and Vulgaris (and maybe other european newts) as soon as they become available in number in my favorite pet shops (I have already 10 Karelinii hibernating)
At this moment, I will probably drop my chinese newts to make more room to my triturus
So, as far as I am concerned, I don't want to put more time, energy and $$$ in chinese newts but if you're interested in them, they are available in large numer in Montreal on a regular basis.
What's in stock in Montréal now?
-Last week, I have seen at Reptile Amazone the following species:
-Tiger and Marbled salamanders at 50-60CND$
-3-line salamander (don't know the official name)
-At Reptile Dépôt, some paramesotriton (don't ask me what subspecies???)in stock at +/- 20CND$
At Wal Mart, tons of small (2-3 inches) Cynops (Pyrrhogaster or Orientalis???) at less than 3CND$ each!!!! (That's one of the reason I don't want to breed them)
-Finally, at Centre Nature, around 50 Mandarin Newts were in stock last month at 20 CND$ each (many were very dark, almost all black instead of black and orange???)
That's all for now, but early winter is not the best time of the year for amphibians in Québec.....
If you're still interested in those species, let me know. But the major problem now is the freezing temperature in Montreal (to cold for shipping) and how to cross the CND-US border.
A bientôt
Eric
N.B. I can give you the phone number of Reptile Amazone and Reptile Depôt if you want to discuss price and availability with the staff (they speak english....)

rob
25th November 2002, 14:22
Hey All,

I awoke this morning to find even MORE eggs in my P. waltl tank. THe count must be over 300 in total right now...which I beleive is pretty good for a first time breeder.

Anyone who wants some let me know asap.

TJ
4th December 2002, 04:15
Hi Rob,
How're those eggs doing?
Pls give us a progress report!
I'm keeping mine in 30cmx15cmx15cm plastic containers rather than tanks for ease of cleaning, viewing, shifting around, etc.
Also, I only change the water every 4-5 days, but I'm using cartridge filters containing charcoal that are changed every two weeks.
I have some 400 or so larvae now that started hatching after only 4 days. Almost no fatalities so far (even after 2 weeks) so I must be doing something right this time 'round! The cool weather also helps.
They're still on brine shrimp though they're looking like they might soon be ready to handle small tubifex. Did you say you've got your's on daphnia now?
Would be interesting to compare their rate of growth since they arrived around the same time!
Cheers
Tim

TJ
4th December 2002, 04:33
This is one of the 3 containers, and as you can see, the little monsters are already overcrowded, having quickly grown in size. I'll be switching to 6 containers in a couple of days...
Tim

http://www.caudata.org/forum/messages/8/1797.jpg

TJ
4th December 2002, 04:55
http://www.caudata.org/forum/messages/8/1799.jpg

rob
4th December 2002, 15:07
Hey Tim,

They look very close to the same size as mine. Currently I've been feeding them vinegar eels, microworms and daphnia. They're looking really good and it's hard to get a good count of how many I have. I think you have a lot more then I do though. The second batch of eggs she laid hasn't hatched yet, but I'm leaving those in the tank with the parents...too many to take care of.

I've also culled a few spinners and such, plus a few of the weaker ones have die. Overal...I'd guess out of 200 eggs, a few dozen were duds, culled and lost a few...probably about 50-75 left. The second batch isn't included.

I'm going to concentrate on about 30 or so of the remaining ones, so I'll be culling off any smaller ones over the next few days.

They're in a ten gallon tank with one snail, an air pump spongue filter, and turkey baster cleanings of the bottom every day (before I feed them).

So far, they all look great. They're about 2cm in length and perhaps about 5mm in diameter now.

Hope all is well on your front.

TJ
4th December 2002, 20:25
Sounds great Rob. And what a menu! Vinegar eels?! That's a new one on me. The only foods I have ready access to here are live brine shrimp (I'm hatching my own of course), frozen bloodworm and live tubifex. I am going to have to learn how work with worm cultures and raise daphnia, etc.

I haven't done any culling (can't!), which is why I still have a few runt Iberian juvies from previous litters that nobody would want. I'm sure my huge Oscar would be only too happy to help with any culling I might decide to do in the future though. http://www.caudata.org/forum/clipart/biggrin.gif

rob
5th December 2002, 16:00
If they're too big your oscar may get their ribs popping out and injuring him...so I wouldn't do it with any that are too large. Oscar's are great fish though...I used to have a pair for years.

Culturing the different worms is really easy, and so far the daphnia hasn't been hard either. Do you babies eat the frozen bloodworms? I haven't tried yet.

I noticed they all ahve a small set of legs now, not sure when those developed since they're very short and white, so very easily missed (the look like part of the gill most times unless you get a good angle from their belly up).

Hope yours are coming along well.

TJ
6th December 2002, 07:11
Just kidding about feeding them to the Oscar. I'd never do that, even if it were safe...well, at least not deliberately! I once fed a P. waltl larve to him that I thought had mysteriously died, but just before the Oscar grabbed it, it moved! http://www.caudata.org/forum/clipart/blush.gif It was too late by then to perform a rescue...

He's fed mostly Tetra pellets and freeze-dried shrimp. It might be just my imagination, but he seems to be hungrily eyeing all the newts from behind the glass http://www.caudata.org/forum/clipart/lol.gif

I have frozen daphnia in the fridge, but haven't used it with my larvae after reading something somewhere once about how it could cause problems...shells too hard or something like that...though not sure if that's really the case. have you tried this?

i also have frozen adult brine shrimp in the freezer but it tends to foul the water if the cubes are just plopped in. Think I'll try it again tonight with my newts, this time after rinsing it well beforehand in a net...

My Cynops larvae are now eating frozen bloodworm (will post a pic later maybe), but the Iberians are still too small to handle anything that big.

I usually start all my babies out on newly hatched baby brine, then introduce small live tubifex, then larger live tubifex and finally frozen bloodworm. Years ago I used to be able to get live bloodworm here, but no longer...

Will check my Iberians this evening to see if they have also developed those legs. Sure they're not the so-called "balancers" that some newt larvae develop? I dunno if P.waltl larvae get them...

rob
11th December 2002, 04:05
Mine have started eating blackworms. I have to dice them up, but they eat them like crazy. They balloon up so big....they look so fat. They've grown a lot over the past two days....and have darkened a fair bit. It is legs that I saw, no balancers. I have one that is a different colour then the rest as well...very pale looking. I have seperated it, but I think it's just a runt of the litter and hasn't gotten that far along yet. Either way he's seperate to make sure he gets extra attention until he morphs.

I sent you and email too Tim....hope that's ok.

Rob

paris
11th December 2002, 22:41
i used to chop up blackworms, but now i have come to the conclusion its a wasted effort. those that are maimed past the point of repair will die and possibly foul the water (depending on biomass/water ratio)what i have found is just to let them loose in the bottom of the tank-they clump together in small balls if there is no substrate-and spread out if there is gravel-either way there are lots of little pointy wormy ends wiggling all about to get nipped off. it seems that larva just bite off what they can eat and leave the rest..for me this works better. if the tank is bare bottom and has lots of plants -every so many days i go in and stirr up the water and worms-so they are equally dispersed and dangling off of plants and all-this gives the larva better access. i have heard reports of larva supposibly being choked by eating too many blackworms all at once-having been seen dead with lots of blackworms dangling from their mouths. i wonder though if that is just an after effect of being dead-blackworms go right for dead bodies and dead eggs.(i am considering using them to clean delicate specimens)

also for those that are wondering about worm cups-ive tried them they are pretty much useless unless you want to separate live worms from dead. the whole point of worm cups is supposibly to allow a ball of worms to be easily accessed in small amounts. the problem is blackworms are always on the move and like to move downward and in groups. so soon after you put them in the cup-they start to poke out and then seem to form a collective -intertwineing about each other eventually forming a large 'drop'-a ball of worms located on the bottom of the cup that drops to the bottom and becomes the big ball of worms that you were trying to aviod. the only positive side to these contraptions is the separation of the living from the dead.


for larger more interesting prey though-has anyone ever bred scuds-i think thats what they are(a fresh water shrimp bigger than brine but still very small)? my newts love them and id like to know how to get them in large amounts. ive gotten them from ponds where they live in pondscum clumps-but its such a pain to separate them and id like to avoid the possible parasite issue.

rob
11th December 2002, 22:53
Hmmm...interesting idea. I will have to try that. Thanks for the tip.

rob
17th December 2002, 21:29
Wahoo! They're eating frozen brine shrimp now. SO much easier, but more cleaning! Worthy trade off!

Rob

TJ
19th December 2002, 15:16
heya Breeder Rob! How many do you have left? I'm down to 150+- -- not enough to populate the world but more than enough to populate my living room.http://www.caudata.org/forum/clipart/lol.gif

Have you noticed any cannibalism among the larvae (as seen with axolotls)? I haven't but I'm wondering, because I started with more than double that number but haven't removed 150 tiny bodies over the past couple of weeks, maybe only 30-40 or so. And the filter has a sponge.

It seems yours have grown at a faster rate than mine despite hatching around the same time -- perhaps because you've culled the flock? Frozen brine shrimp? What size shrimp? Mine are still on fresh-hatched brine, and tubifex is still too big for them. I found one very big one the other day but am pretty sure it's a C.e larvae stowaway! http://www.caudata.org/forum/clipart/lol.gif

rob
19th December 2002, 17:08
Hey Tim!

Sorry I haven't responded to your email yet...I've been fairly busy the past week or so.

As for cannibalism I would have to say I did not notice any of it. Mine are very large right now, and I think it was because I fed them live blackworms. They grew like crazy after feeding them those for a couple days.

As for the brine shrimp it's frozen full grown brine shrimp now. Today is going to be bloodworms to see how they like those.

I have about 30-40 left, a good number I think considering my aim. I'm at a point where all the ones I have left are large, eating well, and looking very healthy. All the runts, spinners, and such were either culled off or died of natural causes and were removed. The ones left are HUGE. They about....hmm....4-5cm in length, and probably about as thick around as a pencil is at their head (slimming off towards the tail of course). Their front legs are getting fairly large now too and are taking on the grey colour that their body has instead of the transparent colour they were the other day.

Hope yours are doing great! http://www.caudata.org/forum/clipart/happy.gif

Rob

rob
19th December 2002, 20:45
Tried the bloodworms...they smell food cause they're all searching for it, but the completly ignore the food itself...like they don't recognize the actual bloodworms as food. Brine shrimp is what it's going to be a for a while then!

rob
22nd December 2002, 00:09
Eating brine shrimp like crazy, and now they have backlegs! They're growing fast.

rob
8th January 2003, 14:42
Well, they're eating anything I give them now...and this morning when checking the parents tank there was another batch of eggs...more then the first two batches. That's three batches of eggs over the past two months!!! Will they ever stop?

steve
8th January 2003, 16:46
wow! rob , you need to buy a couple 120G tanks now.

rob
27th January 2003, 05:05
First one has morphed and is looking great.