Communicable fish diseases/parasites

Aschneider8

Aschneider8

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I have not fed fish to my axolotls yet, but was advised that fish diseases are not communicable to axolotls. I find this highly unlikely and wonder which specific diseases or parasites they can contract from feeder fish.
 
Feeder fish contain Thiaminase. Thiaminase causes a loss of appetite and impedes the digestion of vitamin B1. I have acres of and acres of feeder fish (Rosey Reds)----(Fat heads) that I raise and sell commerically. I would love to feed them to my Axies, for the convenience. But I won't because of this. If you do a web search on what fishes do and do not contain Thiaminase it will list the good and bad. Rock Bass is one of the good ones....go figure.:confused:
Oh....if you are looking for a live food, for convenience then you might want to consider leeches. 85% protein. Low on the Cal/Phos. scale though. But I consider all foods supplimentals. mix it up.

Hey does anyone know if there is a check spell on here? I see the red lines when I miss spell but need the site to correct it for me.
 
Well, fish can get fungal infections, and so can axolotls. Fish can get parasites, and so can axolotls. I don't think axolotls can get things like dropsy or popeye though, and I'm not sure about SBD (swim bladder disorder). Most people who feed axolotls with feeder fish don't do it often, because of the reasons willowcat said. However, you can safely feed an axolotl guppies, minnows, glass shrimp, ghost shrimp, and brine shrimp as long as you have them quarantined for some time. I'm not entirely sure how long the quarantine period should be, as some people say a week, and others say a month.
 
Wow, good to know thanks so much! So far I tried the pellets from the breeder which they quit eating after I gave them live black worms. I have a red worm compost bin now that they are bigger and so far they still like these quite a bit. I have feed night crawlers and slugs from the untreated yard. Finally I have given them a small amount of frozen fish and shrimp. They are a bit chubby, but have grown really fast. I will definitely try some leaches, thanks.
 
Yeah, I thought that some fungal and bacterial agents would be likely to infect axolotls as well. I thought maybe something like anchor worms could attack them too, so just wondering. I thought about putting some cherry shrimp or guppies in a 10 gallon for occasional treats, but now I think the guppies may be a bad idea after learning about thiaminase from Willowcat. I would definitely quarantine for a ling time as I have learned the hard way from my fish.
 
Guppies and minnows are safe to feed in small amounts. What Willowcat is saying is that you can't feed fish as a main staple. As an occasional snack they aren't going to be dangerous.
 
Cherry shrimp is an awesome food. Also makes them work for the food. I also cut up boneless, skinless chicken thighs. I use a turkey baster (my pipette) to hold the piece of meat and rub it on their lips until they take it. There is a live food link on this site with some great alternative foods. It gives you the nutritional make up of the live foods also.
 
Entertainment too. I had two neons hatch out of some plants that didn't last too long. I meant to scoop them out but didn't do it in time.
 
I read that list and the frozen shrimp was really high in protein and low in fat, but people say to use as an occasional treat. They mostly eat worms. I feed the bigger ones with a tweezers or by hand anyway.
 
willowcat said:
Cherry shrimp is an awesome food. Also makes them work for the food. I also cut up boneless, skinless chicken thighs. I use a turkey baster (my pipette) to hold the piece of meat and rub it on their lips until they take it. There is a live food link on this site with some great alternative foods. It gives you the nutritional make up of the live foods also.
Click to expand...

Are you sure it's safe to feed axolotls with chicken? If it's not something they would encounter naturally, I doubt it's safe to feed them with it. Just like you shouldn't feed an axolotl red meat. I know that raw chicken can carry parasites and even salmonella.
 
Worms are THE staple for axies. They should be getting these 5-6 days a week.
Guppies & minnows are fine as long as they have been quaratined or you have bred them yourselves.
Frozen shrimp is usually very salty, again use as an occasional treat.
Pellets are great but some axies won't take them if they are too hard. They also create a hell of a mess if they are left in the tank.
I would not feed ANYTHING to my axies that I had caught in my garden. I don't use checmicals but my neighbours might, there may be bacteria and parasites,, animal poop etc
Chicken and beef are an emergency rations only - axies are designed to digest invertebrate proteins, not mammals or birds.
ANYTHING you feed your axie has the potential to carry bacteria or parasites, it's all about keeping it as safe as you can - breeding food yourself, quarantining etc.
Live shrimp of any suitable kind are fun for axies to chase - mine love ghost shrimp.
Slugs have a huge potential for parasites, even in you catch them in your 'safe' garden.
 
I saw salmonella from raw chicken brought up in another thread, too, and was wondering about it - because I understand axolotls (and most other herps?) can carry salmonella in their own right. Would salmonella bacteria from chicken make them sick, or is it just us is makes ill...? (This from someone who gave herself suspected salmonella poisoning from an undercooked egg when she was ten. Ugh.)

Just curious!
 
Salmonella doesn't affect fish and amphibians in the same way as us. Salmonella bacteria can live quite happily in a tank and never make the axies or fish sick.
Axies don't get food poisoning from chicken, they just have trouble digesting it.
 
auntiejude said:
Salmonella doesn't affect fish and amphibians in the same way as us. Salmonella bacteria can live quite happily in a tank and never make the axies or fish sick.
Axies don't get food poisoning from chicken, they just have trouble digesting it.
Click to expand...

That makes sense. I wasn't quite sure myself, but I figured better safe than sorry.
 
That's what I suspected, thanks for confirming and fulfilling my curiosity!
 
------------ATTENTION--------ALERT------------ATTENTION --------------ALERT----------ATTENTION------This is Dr. Mecant Tak Nomor.......I just left Willowcats house and he was in sad shape. I went there to pick up some Rosey Reds (feeder fish), because he raises them, for my pet Axolotl. He was laying on the ground, in a fetal position, twitching, eyes rolling and flickering. I noticed that all his pet Axolotls were gone and replaced with "plastic" Axolotls. I found a note in his hand and pried it out of his eagle talon clutch. The note had the word "Thiaminase" on it. I also noticed in a crock pot was his favorite fixin' ----------Guppy Soup. So I did some blood work on him and notice he was deficient in vitamin B1. Go figure???????? So my question is what is the cut off point? How many guppies, how many times, how many days, how many ways. What is the mathematical formula to know when to enough is enough?

Here is a helpful link.

Thiaminase

Here is our chicken link
Compare to others:
http://www.caudata.org/cc/articles/foods2.shtm

The Doctors Wisdom of the day:
Variety of foods.......is key.:kill:
 
Willowcat, if your 'feeder fish' (rosey reds) as so bad in that they contain thiaminase, why do you breed them to sell as food? And where exactly on this list does it mention guppies as a source of thiaminase?
Species that contain thiaminase
Freshwater fish
Family Cyprinidae (Minnows or carps):
Common bream (Abramis brama)
Central stoneroller (Campostoma anomalum)
Goldfish (Carassius auratus)
Common carp (Cyprinus carpio)
Emerald shiner (Notropis atherinoides)
Spottail shiner (Notropis hudsonius)
Rosy red, Fathead minnow (Pimephales promelas)
Olive barb (Puntius sarana)
Family Salmonidae (Salmonids):
Lake whitefish (Coregonus clupeaformis)
Round whitefish (Prosopium cylindraceum)
Family Catostomidae (Suckers):
White sucker (Catostomus commersonii)
Bigmouth buffalo (Ictiobus cyprinellus)
Family Ictaluridae (North American freshwater catfishes):
Brown bullhead catfish (Ameiurus nebulosus)
Channel catfish (Ictalurus punctatus)
Other families:
Bowfin (Amia calva) - family Amiidae (Bowfins)
Burbot (Lota lota) - family Lotidae (Hakes and burbots)
White bass (Morone chrysops) - family Moronidae (Temperate basses)
Rainbow smelt (Osmerus mordax) - family Osmeridae (Smelts)
Loach, Weatherfish (Misgurnus sp.) - family Cobitidae (Loaches)

In the same way that humans eat things that are not 'perfect' for them, there is no reason that guppies shouldn't be fed to axolotls occasionally. And worms are fairly good on the thiamine content, so they more than make up for any deficiency caused by eating fish.
Point taken - guppies should not be a staple food for axolotls. Please stop banging on about thiaminase - it's getting boring now.
 
I didn't get the impression that he was saying that they "are so bad," I just got the impression that they are not good as a sole diet. The article was helpful and said “The thiaminase content of guppies is unknown, but considered low or negligible, making them much safer to use than goldfish or minnow feeders.” I also was interested to find out that some easily obtainable fish are free of it like cod, haddock, pollack, bluegill, crapie, trout, and yellow perch. It's nice to add a bit more variety than just worms.
 
Still curious about specific disease/parasites if anyone has had any experience with axolotl contracting them from feeder fish. Thanks.
 
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