baking soda?

[coendeurloo]

So, in usable terms; will something like a tonic salt solution kill off 99% of harmful organisms for newts, or isn't there anything to say about the risks of not using a very strong desinfectant? How likely is something like a Cryptosportidia to appear in my tank? Sorry if these questions are silly, but it would be interesting to know how much risk at diseases dissapear by using different desinfectants.

 

[MRIGUY]

IMHO... no. If you want to kill organisms you need a disinfectant, period. If you are looking for a comparison of the effectiveness of various agents at removing pathogenic and or infectious organisms you can try a medline or pubmed search. There is likely something in the medical litterature on what you are looking for. I know these studies get redone from time to time. There should be a detailed one from the mid-80's when Aids was getting a lot of attention and fear in the media.

 

[MRIGUY]

I should add that though "salt" in in fact a disinfectant depending on the type and concentration (ie bleach and permanganate vs table and sea salt) in the above discussions we seemed to be discussing the more fish tank flavored salts or so I thought. So yes, salt can be a disinfectant if you buy or mix the right type but Bleach is readily available and very safe and easy to use. It is , of course, also essentially ionized salt water.

 

[Ed]

Actually that is a simplistic defintion... the technical definition is that a salt is a metal ion that is reacted with an "acid".
However in common usage when people refer to salt they are referring to table salt or sodium chloride not the other salts (otherwise recipes for example couldn't just say salt as you could in theory be adding lead sulphate (which is also a "salt"). So while KMnO4 (potassium permanganate) is a salt, and a good disinfectant (and if not used carefully can burn you or kill your axolotls), it is referred to specifically as potassium permanganate or permanaganate of potash or Condy's crystals and not as "salt".

I am not sure that calling bleach (which like "salt" are actually a number of agents that oxidize) ionized sea water is accurate. "Bleach" in this case refers to sodium hypochlorite (NaClO) and while it contains sodium and chloride it is not made from sea water but instead a much more concentrated brine through electrolysis by keeping the solution very cool and the anode and cathode very close. Alternatly it can also be made by bubbling chlorine gas (Cl2) through a solution of sodium hydroxide (NaOH).

Other than the use of salt water as a bath or dip to treat some very specific pathogens/parasites, it has no use in killing or even removing most amphibian pathogens/parasites.

Ed

 

[MRIGUY]

Agreed. I have a tendency to oversimplify at times. Is that what my wife means when she calls me simple?

 

[Ed]

As I don't know your wife I have leave that question open....

I was clarifying as there was a question about tonic salt water and I didn't want your response to be attributed supporting the salt water treatment..

Ed

 

[Otterwoman]

...any opinions on the vinegar?

 

[MRIGUY]

Thanks Ed. I was not supporting Saltwater though in re-reading my post you are correct that it was vague.

 

[Ed]

Hi Dawn,

Vinegar really isn't that good of a disinfectant by itself either.

Ed

 

[JWERNER]

Bleach is the best! lol why wont this die?

 

[Bellabelloo]

Sorry couldn't resist...

How about lemon.. , it cleans grease, bleaches hair etc, works well with salt too

 

[JWERNER]

I dont think it would work good on this application, it is a good cleaner and alot of cleaners have it in the mix these days.

Im sure Ed will answer this.

 

[Abrahm]

How about lemon.. , it cleans grease, bleaches hair etc, works well with salt too

Lemon is a good cleaner but it is not a disinfectant.

Lemon juice is a very acidic solution that makes it excellent for removing calcium carbonate buildup and other stains. It is not a disinfectant. Disinfectants are a more specific group of biocidal compounds that are used in cleaning surfaces and objects. A low pH solution is not a disinfectant as there are many organisms, including disease causing organisms, that are resistant to low (or high) pH.

Bleach and ammonia are excellent household disinfectants and bleach has the added benefit of being easily neutralized by water dechlorinator.

 

[Bellabelloo]

ok..I'm happy..bleach it is then.

 

[coendeurloo]

For me it wasn't a question which one is the best desinfectant, it was wether the tonic salt solution would do a 'proper enough' job, I feel this is still unanswered, or have I missed something?

 

[Ed]

I think you are missing something...

snip "Other than the use of salt water as a bath or dip to treat some very specific pathogens/parasites, it has no use in killing or even removing most amphibian pathogens/parasite"endsnip

All a "tonic" salt solution is, is a isotonic solution to the animal.

Ed

 

[JWERNER]

What do you mean by proper enough if you are not talking of a disinfectant? Are you asking as in stubborn algae that may had been left behind, stubborn scum..etc,..etc?

 

[coendeurloo]

Thanks for pointing it out Ed, I think it was a language barrier problem, and I just don't know enough about this subject, my excuses.

Jwerner, the description: "When setting up a new fresh water aquarium, Supa Tonic Salts are ideal, or they can be used to condition the water for fish originating from areas with natural brackish water. It can also be used to combat fungus and other diseases and as a sterilising solution. If you are looking to hatch brine shrimp eggs, then Supa Tonic Salts can be used to create ideal conditions" made me think it should make a tank relitively safe. If there would be a safe product that would do a proper enough job, I'd think I would use it. With proper enough, I mean it would kill off all bad things that are likely to appear in a tank, just to make the risk smaller. I think I'm just worried about using something potentially harmful like ammonia or bleach, and I'm not educated enough about the risk of every single bad 'germ' in the tank.

 

[Ed]

No problem please excuse my bluntness..

There are a lot of products on the market that make the person using them feel good but usually do not meet the advertising on the lable.

Even bleach and ammonia do not get everything.. for example the Cryptosporidia ssp are resistant to bleach but are sensitive to ammonia but the ammonia cannot be any more dilute than the ammonia right out of the bottle (household strength) and if I remember correctly the resting spore of Mycobacterium spp can be resistant to normal disinfectant levels of bleach.

Ed

 

[JWERNER]

Now I got yah, I am so sorry I think it was the language barrier thing you spoke of. Most other countries have a more proper etiquette than us Americans...wink,..wink. I am sorry.