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avalon_princess

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Emma C
I was looking at axolotl.org, and the tank they showed in the housing area was a 4 foot but only held 15 cm of water, so only about 60l. Does water capacity matter? As the less water the easier clean outs are, and the better the waters cleaned since you can take out larger amounts ie in a 4 foot with 60l, you can easily change 50l of the water which is about 85% of the water, rather then in a full 4 foot (200l) where the most you can do is about 70l and thats less then a 50% water change.

So could I mimic that set up and comfortably house 3-4 axolotls with no trouble? or do they need all the volume for dispersion of ammonia/nitrite/nitrate?
 
the volume of water does help dilute any waste products and larger amounts also make for a more stable container. Unless there is something really wrong with the tank, you typically do not want to remove more than 20-25% of the water at any one change.

Ed
 
Can I ask why? I'm a fish person really, and prefer to do very large, frequent water changes, at it helps with growth and overall health, and as long as their frequent, they generally don't get shocked by changing parameters as their still almost the same.
 
Larger water changes could cause the tank to cycle again.
 
How so? the filter remains under water at all times, and nothing is added that would kill off the bacteria, I do 100% water changes on a few of my tanks, and I've never had even a mini cycle. I guess if the water wasn't properly dechlorinated before adding it, it could kill off the bacteria, but that can also harm the inhabitants.
 
You are vary lucky.
 
Can you explain why it would restart the cycle? Everything I've learnt says it wouldn't. As for the cycle to restart the bacteria need to die, to kill the bacteria you either need to shock them really badly, which doesn't happen if the water changes are every few days, as there isn't much difference between the tank water and the new water, or you need to stop feeding them, if they are left without an ammonia/nitrite source for more then 24 hours the colony will die off, but a water change takes maybe 30 mins, on a large tank.

Would be interested here why it would restart a cycle, always learning new things...
 
Axolotls are not fish, and are not as adept at dealing with changing water parameters as fish are. Even small, sudden changes in water parameters can cause death.
 
avalon_princess said:
Can I ask why? I'm a fish person really, and prefer to do very large, frequent water changes, at it helps with growth and overall health, and as long as their frequent, they generally don't get shocked by changing parameters as their still almost the same.
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There is the "fish bowl" method of tank maintenance: daily 100% water changes. This is a decent way to maintain constant water parameters. It usually fails in the long run, but only because people get tired of it. "Every day" becomes "every other day", then less often until the fish is sick. [I'm not implying here that any of this applies to you, I'm explaining it to the people who think that cycling and small water changes are the only way to keep water parameters constant.]

I think what you are doing may be OK, or not, it depends on what you mean by "frequent" and "large". If your water changes are less than 100% daily, then the water parameters probably do shift to some extent from the source water. How much they shifts depends on a number of factors, such as tank size, number of animals, amount of food, etc. A healthy colonization of beneficial bacteria will, itself, make some changes to the water parameters too. The amount of change may be OK, or it may be stressful to the animals.

Can you explain the procedure you are using: total tank volume, number of axies, how often and how much water you change, how often you clean the filter and ornaments, etc?
 
Currently no axolotls, tis all research.

I was looking at getting a 4 foot tank, 3 axolotls, but only filling it with 60l of water, then 40-50l could be changed every second day quite easily. With my fish tanks, I can't manage adding on the maintenance of another 200l tank (theres only so many hours in the day for clean outs), so if that can't be done, will stick with a 2-3 foot tank and only a couple of axies.
 
Ok , I didn't close enough you were talking 70 lillers which is about 20 gal. I was thinking that you had a 70 gal. That is why I thought it would recycle all the way. I have a 220 gal. , 110 gal and a 50 gal. I was thinking your tank was bigger. It might work ok. Is there a reason you don't want to use a filter?
 
Huh? I will definitely be using a filter, they are always a good back up if for some reason you miss a water change etc. But in their natural habitats, aquatic animals have their water continually refreshed, it enhances growth and general health when mimicked in the aquarium, it works the same for frogs/tadpoles, so I assumed it'd work for axolotls.

I don't have a tank yet, I was looking at getting a 4 foot 55g (200l for Aussies). Well I do have a tank a 2 footer, but don't particularly want to use it, would rather get a new tank.
 
Oh, also could I get some confirmation on whether or not sands okay? People keep saying its small enough to pass through the digestive system, but wouldn't that be pretty uncomfortable for the axie?

As I'm heading up to a big Bunnings next Sunday that sells coloured sand (completely aquarium safe) and I'll grab some if it's okay to use.
 
70 liters of water is NOT enough to support 3 axolotls. By using the entire water column, and providing hiding spaces at all levels, you'll keep your axolotls from attacking each other.

WHY would someone want to do daily water changes when they can just as easily do weekly water changes? A 4 foot tank holds about 50 gallons of water. A 15% water change once a week is about 8 gallons (I do two 5-gal buckets out of mine). This is so much easier than trying to change 100% of the water every day (or even every other day). It's just silly.
 
I'm going off of this taqnk
http://www.axolotl.org/housing.htm
60l of water 8 axolotls....

Okay then obviously it doesn't work, so I'll stick with a 2 footer, I can't add another full 4 foot tank to my collection, if its only filled part way then yeah probably, but if its full and something goes wrong thats a heck of a lot of water to change when all you have is 2g buckets.

Daily water changes at least for fish are far better for their health then one large water change once a week, as already stated, and since axolotls are aquatic, and are affected my ammonia, nitrite and nitrate just as fish are, then I thought it'd work the same, though axolotls seem to be tougher in regards to it actually. I'm not thinking of the time it takes me, I'm thinking of the health and happiness of the animals. Changing waqter everyday improves health, happiness, increases growth rate, and thus increases the colours and activity of the fish.
 
avalon_princess said:
Oh, also could I get some confirmation on whether or not sands okay? People keep saying its small enough to pass through the digestive system, but wouldn't that be pretty uncomfortable for the axie?

As I'm heading up to a big Bunnings next Sunday that sells coloured sand (completely aquarium safe) and I'll grab some if it's okay to use.
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Sand is good to use. It would be best if the axolotl doesn't ingest any substrate, which is one reason to have no substrate, but it is much better if the animal ingests sand than pebbles. Sand can pass through, which while possibly being uncomfortable, will not injure the animal with blockages.

Kaysie said:
70 liters of water is NOT enough to support 3 axolotls. By using the entire water column, and providing hiding spaces at all levels, you'll keep your axolotls from attacking each other.

WHY would someone want to do daily water changes when they can just as easily do weekly water changes? A 4 foot tank holds about 50 gallons of water. A 15% water change once a week is about 8 gallons (I do two 5-gal buckets out of mine). This is so much easier than trying to change 100% of the water every day (or even every other day). It's just silly.
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Seventy liters is quite small for three axolotls. Daily water changes if they are maintained will help remove waste and help prevent toxicity there is still the problem of providing enough livable space. I doubt think we should be quite so rude to Emma about her water maintenance schedule. It certainly isn't the best plan for everyone but that system would work and has worked for many people. Large frequent water changes prevent the buildup of toxic waste problems and if they are frequent enough don't usually cause problems with changing water parameters as they stay close to tap values.

Most fish breeders and discus keepers use schemes like this to great effect.

Kaysie said:
Axolotls are not fish, and are not as adept at dealing with changing water parameters as fish are. Even small, sudden changes in water parameters can cause death.
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I have problems with this. Yes, axolotls are not fish but a lot of the water maintenance methods and whatnot are interchangeable. Of course some things are not. There are many, many fish that are more sensitive than axolotls or other newts making your advice for axolotls apply to fish too.

EDIT: I don't see 8 axolotls in the tank you reference. There looks to be two, maybe three axolotls in there (two one side of the divider one on the other?) The eight are the numbers for the legend underneath. It is also a nearly three foot long tank.
 
It lists it as a 4 foot, so why did they right 8? LOl me confused.

Oh and from what I've read, if anything axolotls seem to be less affected by near toxic parameters then fish, from the caresheets I've read the water changes, filtration etc is nowhere near the amount needed for most fish. Tis interesting LOL.
 
avalon_princess said:
It lists it as a 4 foot, so why did they right 8? LOl me confused.

Oh and from what I've read, if anything axolotls seem to be less affected by near toxic parameters then fish, from the caresheets I've read the water changes, filtration etc is nowhere near the amount needed for most fish. Tis interesting LOL.
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I know some people that do water changes for their axies "as needed" aka "whenever the axies start to look stressed." So far as I can tell, this amounts to once every two or three months (w/ filter, of course). They look happy and breed fine, so I suppose it's okay. I'm anal and do small (10 to 20%) changes every couple weeks, but I'm paranoid and I also prefer to keep nitrates down.

I worked in an aquarium for a while and we'd always acclimate fish to new conditions over an hour or so. My dad's also always done this when introducing new fish to his tank. I've seen axies just plain plopped into a new tank, no water tests, not acclimitization, and they come out of it fine. I wouldn't recommend it, but they do seem pretty resilient.
 
Well I think I'll just go with a pair in my current two foot tank for the mo, as the only healthy axies around here are juvies they should be happy for a while, and I'll see how they go, I do have room/money to upgrade to a 3/4 foot but would rather not if it needs to be filled to the top.

Now just need to have some fun setting up the tank and buying some new substrate etc, I popped a filter in one of my very heavily stocked tanks, so I don't have to go through the whole cycling process, will only have to move the filter across when I get the axies.
 
Hi Emma, I started with a 2 ft tank for my two axolotl which was fine while they were young, but as they grow ( and boy do they grow!) they'll need to move into a bigger tank..it was a bit of a shock when I noticed Jeffrey stretched across the front..I measured him and he had nearly reached 30cm! and Maude was not too far off. Its a bit of a nuisance when I had very limited space to move them into a bigger tank( which Maude then chose to decorate with eggs!). Its great to see them swimming gently up and down their new tank and wish I'd moved them sooner. I hasten to say this is my humble opinion :)
 
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